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iridesantacruz
Aug 3, 2002, 6:46 PM
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After starting climbing how long should you wait till you learn lead, or does it not matter?
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climbchick
Aug 3, 2002, 7:02 PM
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I'd say go for it whenever you feel ready and are sure you know what you're doing. For some reason, people told me that it would probably take 3 years until I could start thinking about leading, but I did my first lead (albeit a very easy one) within 6 months. It's very, very addictive. I think the best advice is to practice on stuff that is a few grades below your level.
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jman
Aug 3, 2002, 8:04 PM
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I think it's hard to justify a time table for when you're ready to lead. IMHO it's all a matter of your comfort level on the rock and how secure you are in your climbing abilities. The sharp end of the rope is a lot different than TR'ing. I would say that you should be at least able to climbing 5.8 and 5.9 climbs solidly on top rope. It's usually hard to find sport lead routes that are of a lesser level.
A friend of mine told me a while ago that people usually sport lead one degree lower than they TR, which I've found to be true. If you're not at a certain skill level that shouldn't stop you from climbing lead routes all together cause you can always hook up with a lead climber and learn how to give a decent lead belay and second or clean a climb.
Have fun but be safe.
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crackaddict
Aug 3, 2002, 8:47 PM
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Yeah don't hold back. If you have TR'd climb without falling, then you are ready to lead it. Just as long as you have the know how on placing the gear.
I suggest climbing sport climbs first. Since bolts are easier protect and learn how to clip.
Make sure you have every climb at hand before you do it. Practice on TR then lead till you get experience. Leading is serious and dangerous when done wrong.
Get an experinced leader to help show the right way to do it.
And you will be happy and climb long.
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rush
Aug 3, 2002, 9:31 PM
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If you're comfortable with the idea of leading go for it! Just make sure you know what you're doing and you'll be fine.
Have fun and climb on!
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genlock
Aug 3, 2002, 10:25 PM
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I've been climbing since october or november. I've started in a gym, climbing what, once every 2 week. Then summer came, I've found a little spot near my home (10 mins of bike, downtown) where I boulder once a week.
I've finally touched REAL rock not too long ago and it was awsome. I was able to lead at my 5th ascent. It was a 5.5 (the hardest climb I've done so far.)
Long story short, If you feel ready, go for it. Make sure that who ever you are with (belayer and others maybe) knows the trail back if something ever happens.
Also.. if you're as lucky as I am to have a little crag downtown, go and practice placement! often!! ( buy John Long - Anchors, VERY VERY helpful!)
Good Luck! keep us informed!
Genlock
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paintinhaler
Aug 3, 2002, 10:40 PM
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Like "climbchick" said its very addictive. You will know the right time. I also know climbers who have never lead and climb and still love it. So its not like you ever have to do it. Just do it when it feels right.
[ This Message was edited by: paintinhaler on 2002-08-03 15:41 ]
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sauron
Aug 3, 2002, 10:41 PM
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Today.
5.5, 5.7 and 5.8.
All in a day's work.
- d.
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hassan
Aug 3, 2002, 11:38 PM
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In my case (being a novice leader) I did my first lead on a small easy route that I knew I can do free solo. However, I think my confidence about started to lead came from one more thing. I spent a day following a good leader on several routes. That gave me an appreciation of what it is all about.
In general yes you can start leading whenever you feel you can do it. But its always better to have spent some 'whatever little' time as a good second
Hassan
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cyberclimber
Aug 5, 2002, 3:00 PM
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I've just started leading trad and I luv it. I would advise seconding for an experienced climber and paying close attention to the placements, spacing, use of runners, etc. as you clean the routes. When you think you are ready to lead, get on a climb you are comfortable with and place twice as much pro as you think you should (you will feel more secure and you will get more practice placing pro). I your second also leads, ask for constructive critisizm of your gear placements.
Have fun be safe, slimb hard.
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bridgeit
Aug 5, 2002, 5:14 PM
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One thing I have done while learning how to lead on a sport route is climb TR but bring up a second rope and go through all of the actions of a lead climb. That way you still have the safety and security but you are able to learn the techniques it takes to do a lead.
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hollyclimber
Aug 5, 2002, 5:30 PM
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I agree that there is no certain time to learn to lead. Also, it somewhat depends on whether you are talking about trad or sport, and what your background is, etc.
I would recommend climbing a lot! Climb with experienced friends. Lead routes WAY below your ability level. When I first learned to lead I started on 5.4 or basically the easiest stuff I could find. I learned tons about the leading process while doing this, even though the climbing was not hard.
When I learned to lead on gear, it went fast because I had been leading on bolts for several years and had followed many gear routes. I read John Long's anchors book (which has info on placing pro) on the bus to work on days when I wasn't climbing.
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pbjosh
Aug 5, 2002, 5:32 PM
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I suggest starting to lead immediately. There are a few basic skills (not back or z-clipping on a sport route, and solid gear placements and anchoring on a trad route) that you will need to learn. That having been said, my first lead was my 3rd climb ever. My friend gave me about 20 cams and put me on a 5.2 crack about 40' long that ended at a big tree. Told me to put every cam in if I felt like it and then anchor to the tree. I didn't die but it was a bit scary- the first lead always is, and it's only a mental thing. On the flip side I know people who've been climbing for years and can TR 10+ or 11- and who are too scared to start leading?!?!
Make sure you have a good mentor or guide or experienced person who isn't going to kill you and go for it!
josh
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spydermonkey
Aug 5, 2002, 6:22 PM
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As soon as you feel comfortable in doing so, and you have complete trust in your belayer.
Be safe, and know your stuff!!!!
spydermonkey
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xanx
Aug 6, 2002, 4:44 AM
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This is basically a dumb question that is sort of related, but it has been bugging me for the longest time. Sport climbing is basically leading like they have in gyms, right? Where all you have to do is clip in to pre-placed quick draws (or put the quick draws and rope on protection)? And trad is putting up all your own protection i.e. bolts and stuff? btw i can onsight 5.10a/b at the gym and boulder v5, acording to they weird rating at my gym, but i've never been outside.
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topher
Aug 6, 2002, 5:02 AM
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i lead a sport route the first time i climb on rock. it was a 5.7 i hade never top ropped it before and i took a 8-9 foot fall on it. sport leading is as easy to do as top ropping, learn about back clipping and the spine on the biner, after that giver. if you know some one who can lead already, go with them get learned and poo your pants all in the same day.
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pbjosh
Aug 6, 2002, 5:15 AM
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xanx - assuming it's not a troll (ok so I'm just jaded by rec.climbing). Sport climbing is climbing routes with relatively closely spaced bolts. You clip a draw to the bolt then the rope to the draw. Trad is placing gear on lead and/or bolting on lead or a mix of the two.
You should try climbing on real rock, you'll probably find it a bit different from the gym. Even if they are gym ratings - if you can boulder v5 you should be able to lead or TR a lot harder then 10a. I can (at my best) boulder v5 (indoor and out it seems) and can (at my best) lead somewhere in the low 11's and have managed a couple of desperate TR 11+'s, never been able to touch a 12 (haven't tried many either).
josh
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hishopper
Aug 6, 2002, 5:29 AM
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I think something should be said here about gear placement...
"Z" or backclipping are easily explained and avoided. However I, for one, plan to spend much time with a mentor learning gear placement before I will trust my (or all the more, someone else's) life on it.
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flagstaff_climber
Aug 6, 2002, 7:08 AM
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I am starting my life as a leader, over the last month. But I would offer two very important pieces of advice. At least they seemed important to me
1.) Spend some time following an experienced leader cleaning routes. You will learn more in 2 or 3 climbs behind a good leader than you will learn in a month from a book. The importance of this cannot be stressed enough.
2.) Be sure you can climb the climb you want to lead on top rope without even coming close to falling. If you really feel like you could free solo it then you are ready to lead it.
My experience is that it will take you a lot longer to set that piece when you are actually on the rock than it does when you are practicing on the ground or TR. Due in part to the pucker factor of knowing what happens if you slip and the lack of experience in selecting the proper gear. This is a very tricky thing I assume takes a long time to do. You will find yourself having to try 2 or three pieces a lot at first to get a good fit.
Also, I always make sure my 2nd or 3rd piece could stop Opra and Rush together on a 30 footer just to be on the save side. And always watch out for ledges or blocks, hitting one of these should a piece pop is just as final as decking.
Other than that it is FUN
Rick
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gunked
Aug 6, 2002, 8:31 AM
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Climbing is about adventure, that being said go for it when you want to. Being safe about it is the key. The question is, are you talkin' indoors or out.
If it's indoors, no problem. Have a friend who knows what they're doing (experienced leader) teach you the basics about rope-work and clipping. Practice this a couple of times on a mock-lead. That's when you're leading on top-rope. You're buddy can teach you the ropes!
If it's outdoors, there's a bit more involved. Find someone who already knows what you're aiming to learn. Duh! You're in Jersey according to your post. Therefore, you're probably not that far away from the Gunks. If that's the case, you're stoked. I can name 5 routes that are under 5.5 and are fully protectable off the top of my head. Quality routes too!
Start by placing pro, anything and everything you can get your hands on, in cracks at the base somewhere. Have somebody that's experienced evaluate all of them. When you're ready, jump on "Betty" or "three pines" or something that's just eats up gear. Learn to deal with ropework issues on something very easy.
Without getting too detailed on learning how to lead and place pro, I'll just refer you to great resources: John Long's books on climbing and anchors are very informative. Remember you ass depends on solid anchors and placements.
Hope I didn't go overboard with info! Have a blast!
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fitz
Aug 6, 2002, 4:41 PM
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Back in the dark ages, we didn't (because we couldn't ) get wicked strong pulling plastic. So, you generally spent a lot of time building and tearing down anchors and placing and cleaning pro while we worked our way up the grades.
For most of us mortals, that meant that our gear ability was always well ahead of our climbing ability. Today, the opposite is often the case. There are plenty of solid 5.11 climbers who have never slotted a nut or fallen on a CAM.
In many ways, this is great. The sport is now pushing levels that I would have thought impossible not too many years ago. But, I also seem to be seeing a lot more avoidable injuries at the crags.
The sharp end is great. If you want to do it, go for it. But, I would loudly second an earlier poster. Start WAY below your limit. A 5.3 or 5.4 is plenty hard for a first trad lead.
Work your way up slowly, and eventually your gear skills and your climbing skills will converge.
I'd also recommend climbing lots of pitches 1/2 rope length or less at first. Lead it, build a bomber anchor at the top, then lower off. The first few times you lower off, don't be surprised if some of your pieces zipper. When you are learning, you are only thinking about downward pull. It takes some practice to start thinking about all the pieces placed being part of a system and interacting.
Good Luck
-jjf
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bcrocks
Aug 6, 2002, 5:16 PM
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the first lead I climb was an easy 5.8 , and it was only the second day of climbing in my life. I never climb indoor . I start climbing only two month ago ...
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wiegs
Aug 6, 2002, 5:24 PM
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Whoa, spray much?
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melonhead
Aug 6, 2002, 5:26 PM
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Start leading the day you start climbing.
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bouldertoad
Aug 7, 2002, 3:00 AM
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Like everyone else said you will know when you are ready to lead. But it is addictive. I am not a big fan of TR'ing anymore but I will do it. I would rather be on the sharp end anyday. I still remember my first lead....i was so scared that I did not fall evn though it was at my limit on Toprope. At the anchor I clipped in and grabbed a tree until i calmed down...
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