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biggernhell
Aug 5, 2002, 8:19 PM
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Yep thats right fifteen bones. The U of U campur rec department sold me a pair of their old rentals.
Since they are my first pair and I'm starting onto the ice this season I've got a few questions
They are old Kong's with horizontal front points and a single complicated strap system.
How hard can I expect to climb in these?
I'm probably gonna pair em' with a good rigid plastic boot. Is this right?
Any advice is appreciated
[ This Message was edited by: biggernhell on 2002-08-05 13:20 ]
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beyond_gravity
Aug 5, 2002, 8:35 PM
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horizontal front points wont climb very hard. Espically in cold conditions. the "grain" of ice is vertical and horizontal points tend to shatter the ice alot. they will still work, you'll probably be able to climb WI3+
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bradhill
Aug 5, 2002, 8:36 PM
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Assuming they're materially sound, you can climb hard as hell in them. Vertical and monopoints aren't that critical until you get into hard mixed stuff, and plenty of that is still done in alpine crampons just because it's in an alpine setting.
You need at least a 3/4 shank boot, but you don't need plastics. I actually really like the Sportiva Trango series boots with a solid sole platform and very flexible ankle. Nice for French Technique.
Complicated strap systems do kinda suck, though, just because they're hard to do and undo when crusted with ice and with frozen hands. So, make sure you double knot your bootlaces before you put them on, and get used to the idea of walking across rocks and moraines with them on instead of wasting time off and on again with them. It doesn't hurt them much, and really only your front points need to be sharp.
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punk
Aug 5, 2002, 8:48 PM
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Ice …haaa!!!!????
Horizontals are OK for pure water falls ice but excel on Glacier ice and snow also the length of the front points and orientation should be a determine factor……(try climbing chandelier ice with horizontal points)
I believe u got the pure Scottish strap sys (try to put it on with the clothing u ware ice climbing u will see what I mean….)
The horizontal frame is cool for waterfall and glacier ice….and again….for waterfall ice u would like a flaring front and back points like the rather then the common straight up and down points Grivel robo once u on a bulge or cauliflower u will understand
All in all my friend looks like u score yourself a decent Glacier walking crampon….sorry to rain on your parade …but before u buy u should ask …
hope it helped
[ This Message was edited by: punk on 2002-08-05 15:57 ]
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punk
Aug 5, 2002, 10:32 PM
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Gawd,
There is nothing that I hate more then being finicky but… while I absolutely agree with this stmt
Quote:
Gear is not an excuse for not climbing well. Look at the "old timers" putting up amazing routes with out the help of today’s technology.
I strongly disagree with the following stmt
Quote:
You will be able to climb as hard as you are able to with these crampons.
The reason is,
when going in to the realm of mix climbing… shattering the ice is a major factor and precision tool are demand…if disagree try climbing M5 or higher with horizontal to prove it to yourself what I’m saying and of course as the grade progress so is the need
That is why they did not have higher grade then WI4+ or WI5 for a while…
As technology progress it open the doors to many more options…and unfortunately more climbers (try getting a spot on “lions on the beach” in a winter or go to do PT or the waterfall area without a line and herds of Gumby’s that literally chopping the ice off…climb clean people…if u cant climb clean and elegant…go find other thing to do and leave it to someone who can…once the ice form and u hack the living sh!t out of it, it gone for good… for the season…)
[ This Message was edited by: punk on 2002-08-05 16:20 ]
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biggernhell
Aug 6, 2002, 5:34 PM
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Thanks guys
I'm gonna give em' hell. For fifteen bucks I think I'll climb hard until either they break or I do. I'm not exactly headed for the first M9 I see any way.
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bradhill
Aug 6, 2002, 7:27 PM
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At an ice climbing talk and slide show I attended given by Jeff Lowe, he said something to the effect of, "The only major innovation necessary to enable hard ice climbing was the Choinard positive curvature ice tool. You can climb anything in the world with those. Everything else is just gimmicks. Reverse curved picks, monopoints and stuff make things easier, but everything was already possible."
He probably wasn't talking about Musashi, but the man is arguably the world's most influential and widely experienced ice climber and I doubt any of us will climb as hard with our fancy-ass carbon fiber tools and adjustable length monopoints as he did with positive curved picks and scottish crampons.
Climb hard. Don't let your equipment stop you and don't blame it when you fail.
[ This Message was edited by: bradhill on 2002-08-06 12:30 ]
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punk
Aug 6, 2002, 7:53 PM
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For all of you puritans hardman of technique I will suggest u to be the man of your words and to go climb WI4 or higher with Humming birds and fully hinge neoprene straps SMC crampons and please mail me your tools (I even going to pay for shipping) for even trade PLEASE PM ME WITH YOUR ADDRESS SO I CAN SEND U MY OLD TOOLS in your quest for Hardmanship
PS.
You and I know that u all a bunch of wankers that will run to the gear store with any new trend in tools or gear for that mater…just look at your posts…which is better…if it really didn’t matter…why inquiring about it
Bottom line is IF U WILL NOT DO IT …WHY SUGGESTING IT TO OTHERS
Jeff Lowe is Jeff Lowe and You are YOU…U will need all the help u can get believe me especially if u a mortal like me and the majority of this board
[ This Message was edited by: punk on 2002-08-06 13:11 ]
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bradhill
Aug 6, 2002, 8:25 PM
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Well... I'm far FAR from a hardman, but I do climb WI4+ with $80 Stubai Hornets (reverse curved, fixed pick) and G-12 hinged horizontal point crampons. The money I saved got me a rack of screws, so I can actually climb instead of sitting around looking at $800 worth of Cobras & RamboComps. I've followed WI4 with one 80's vintage technical and one alpine tool. They don't stick as easy as Cobras, but I get up.
I've swung pricey tools and don't deny they're damn nice and maybe improve my climbing by a grade, and I'm sure monopoints are great, but I haven't shelled out for them yet and I'll never tell anyone they can't climb hard just because they don't have the latest and geatest gear.
[ This Message was edited by: bradhill on 2002-08-06 13:30 ]
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marcel
Aug 6, 2002, 8:31 PM
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My only advice about $15.00 crampons is to make sure they are not too worn. Twice over the years I have had crampons break on me due to metal fatigue. One time they broke in a hairy spot and it left me in a bit of a jam. Last time it was at the end of a long trip, about 2 minutes before I would have taken them off anyway. The point is used crampons might have seen the kind of action that would casue metal fatigue especialy if they have been poorly fitted on many pairs of boots. Bend any piece of metal back and forth enough and it will break. Since you don't know the history of the crampons be careful. Good luck and have fun.
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