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styndall
Apr 17, 2003, 7:28 PM
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In reply to: "I was suprised to see signed copies going for a kings ransom - signatures that were culled from a dying man's hands" ..would merely be considered prudent business practise in the art world.
That doesn't make it any less of a dick thing to do.
More corruption does not excuse corruption.
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dirty_sanchez
Apr 17, 2003, 7:28 PM
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In reply to: By the way dirty_sanchez, your statement.. "I was suprised to see signed copies going for a kings ransom - signatures that were culled from a dying man's hands" ..would merely be considered prudent business practise in the art world. I don't believe anyone has to apologize for selling something so unnecessary for whatever they can get. If it was insulin to diabetics... what do they charge for insulin?
I agree with you here, except that you seem to be ignoring the circumstances... that the signatures were solicited under false pretense. I am merely sugggesting that Chessler has some issues with honesty and and the value of truthful representation.
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dingus
Apr 17, 2003, 7:41 PM
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In terms of web site problems as they relate to retail... get used to it. Simple fact of the matter is that most retailers who attempt to merge web retail with bricks and mortar operations do so very poorly. That is a fact. Any Jack Schmo who thinks they can bang out some html might foolishly believe that with the snap of the fingers and a few hours on a keyboard it easily translates to a well integrated, solid web site that reflects the business practices of a retailer who has been doing it successfully in the real world since Moses was a baby. It *can.* But I have yet to see one. Not one.
Take your pick, they all suck. If you're a web developer in the process of getting your hackles up just now, relax. Retail computing isn't as easy (though it certainly is as mundane) as you may believe. It is incredibly complex with all sorts of legacy systems often involved. That overhead of 30 years of retail computing legacy is how I earn a living. Or, as is the case with some small business people, there are usually no systems at all beyond some cheap ass and simple database that isn't going to interface to anything anyway. I have yet to meet a developer who could get even the basics of data entry right without countless iterations and someone like me to teach them how it all has to work.
While I was reading this thread, I was also using NWC.com to book a flight for next month. Went through all sorts of gyrations to select a flight, key in my info, make seat selections, got down to the final click and was told the flight was no longer available. Arrrrgh!
So I booked another.
Got the email confirmation for that 2nd flight straight away. Okie dokie. Then I get another email, confirmation for the flight they said wasn't available. ARRRGH! I spent another 15 minutes on the phone getting that bullshit fixed. AAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!
I suspect Northwest Airlines has a few more resources than Chessler, and they can't get it right either. Nor can REI or Campmor. Nor can Albertson's or Safeway. Walmark invested millions and pulled the plug on a retail site before it ever launched!
This crap is hard.
I doubt seriously Chessler sits around at a computer terminal all day, updating prices and inventory stocks for what is mostly a manual business process. It's a used book seller site for gods sake!
Dig this... my wife wanted to order some obscure Nancy Drew mystery for my eldest daughter, just last month. She found and ordered the book from two seperate used online booksellers, only to be told a day later from both of them the book at the listed price was no longer available. 3rd try was the charm for her. It's the way the business works.
Walk in a used book store. Look at the shelves of books. Count em, or take a guess. Take a few minutes to understand the buy and sell practices. Look at the number of staff on hand. Guess what they hired help is paid. Now imagine trying to integrate all these manual labor elements into a web site. Input all those books and get all those prices right and keep them right. Keeping them right is the crux...
We're talking an 8 dollar book here.
The average grocery store has say 40,000 items in the inventory file. Even if they achieve a 99% accuracy rating, we're still talking 400 errors. The average weekly advertisement from your local grocer will include about, you guessed it, 400 items. If there are problems, guess where they are most likely to crop up? Yup, in the most frequently changed items, the weekly and monthly ad items. Grocery stores typically have a full time clerk dedicated to nothing else but making sure the prices and shelf tags are correct. They can afford it cause while there isn't a huge profit margin on corn flakes, they sell a helluva lot more corn flakes than Chessler will ever sell of Downward Bound. It takes a big cash flow operation to get and keep that computer system into synch, from the manufacturer to the point of sale.
Finally, to Dirty_Sanchez... are you Derryberry or Lauria? Cause if not you're spewing 3rd hand bullshit. How about getting one of them to pipe up and set the story straight? None of this 'he said she said' bullshit. Straight from the horses mouth. Cause I certainly took note of the fact that Chessler spoke for himself. I have to wonder if his critics have the same courage and gumption to stand up and be heard. Where is Don Lauria when we need him?
Remember folks, this is a used book seller. This isn't B Dalton or Borders (not that they're gonna get this web schitt right either). How many 8 dollar books do you have to sell to fund a 100% accurate web site? How many 8 dollar books do you have to sell to have some one sit down and update inventory and price records all day long, every time a new book comes in the back door or another is mailed out the front? How long do you think these 8 dollar books will stay at 8 dollars if 100% accuracy is condition of business?
Take my advice here, cause I know what I'm talking about. You want a book from Chessler and you see a title of interest on his web site... call him! Talk to the real person, get the quote over the phone. You both will be better off. Don't hide behind your computer screen (and don't give me a speech about how all this is supposed to work) and cry about shitty web sites and bad business practices.
Sheesh. All this over a 8 dollar book. I wonder if he'd be willing to sell some of us a life too?
DMT
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rockpossum
Apr 17, 2003, 9:03 PM
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Nice post dingus, and lots of it! I agree heartily.
Whether or not there is a legal problem regarding the signed books, is a question that can't be determined by Internet Inquisition. I won't pretend to know anything about the situation but if Mr. Hardings estate thinks that there is potential for legal redress, go to court. If they haven't then what the hell business is it of ours other than entertainment.
styndall: I mean this in the most constructive way; The entire capitalist system is based on such "dick" methodology. Farmers margins get crushed to the edge of bankruptcy, while the marketer maximizes his own profitability with pricing that is whatever the competitive market will bear. It is built into everything you buy. Food, cars, books etc.
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styndall
Apr 17, 2003, 10:15 PM
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I think the theory has more in mind with honest transactions.
I should think that any system of economics would look down on taking advantage of the old and infirm.
Also, capitalism only works when both parties to a transaction fullfill the contract. It sounds like one party in the above situation failed there, and got away with it because the other party was too old to do anything about it.
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dsafanda
Apr 17, 2003, 10:34 PM
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In reply to: In terms of web site problems as they relate to retail... get used to it. Simple fact of the matter is that most retailers who attempt to merge web retail with bricks and mortar operations do so very poorly. That is a fact.
I agree. This is a fact but...it is not a good excuse! There are countless 3rd party software solutions that allow a small business to run an effective and up to date web site that includes e-commerce functionality. Would it take a bit of work to integrate and a bit of cash to implement? Ofcoarse. What business upgrade doesn't.
The problem is lazy business owners who only go half way and end up pretending they're capable of offering e-commerce to customers. If you can't keep your prices online up to date, you should remove them and post a "Call 1-800-XXX-XXXX for up to date prices" message in their place and remove any shopping cart functionality. It's that simple. Don't offer services you can't support. This is Business 101.
This isn't a personal attack directed towards Chessler. I haven't read anything here that would prevent me from picking up the phone and purchasing from them.
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antimatter
Apr 17, 2003, 10:50 PM
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Christ.
If I hear another, "well it's hard to get it right so don't expect much," or "you just don't understand the complexities of it all" statement, I am going to impale myself on my monitor. These statements all fall into one simple category, "The lame excuse." Yes, I've heard about your dog eating your homework, traffic jams, etc. Sure, it's not your fault. You're not responsible for the outcome of your own life. Yes, I know, let's weep together about how the world has victimized us both.
I am sick to death of hearing about "Oh this is just such an effort or so complicated, or yada yada yada," ad nauseum.
I'm a payroll database, tax computation & tax payment systems designer/programmer. Yeah, some pretty insanely complex shit after you throw in all of the 401(k), section 125 plans, various tax exempt laws for certain non-taxable corps, out of state corps, multi-state corps, and on and on and on. Do you think for one minute I could tell me customers, "This is complicated and really hard and I might screw it up. But you really should do business with me and I don't expect to pay for my mistakes. MMM K?"
Puuuuhlease. Do it right or don't bother. At the same time, please quit 'yer whining. Take a little pride in your effort, results of your work or at least accept the blame for your own damned lameness.
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tori
Apr 18, 2003, 1:57 AM
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[quote="chesslerbooks
Yes, you got it. No more Downward Bounds for anyone. Buy them from Amazon (Oh yes, they dont have them).
Michael Chessler
well, i hate to keep bringing in reality here, but Amazon.com has a nice hard cover copy for only $80. at least that is what the website says, so how bout one of yall with some moolah buy that one and let us know about their web service. i do understand how hard it is to get the correct information online, it took my three trys just to type in my credit card number to order the book, and lo and behold it was the number on that play credit card my daughter made in art class, only worth about $2 after all, not $7. oh well merchants understand. ok, that was low, i'm being a dick, speaking of which fellatio is not really relavant to the topic so let's all play nice. thanks. and don't forget to check out amazon.com for your book needs.
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dingus
Apr 18, 2003, 3:16 PM
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In reply to: I agree. This is a fact but...it is not a good excuse!
Who said anything about an excuse? I'm merely stating the facts. Burp on them all you wish, it changes nothing.
To the tax guy... I knew at least one super-programmer would pipe up with this. Jeez, I've been in the meetings and heard it all before. If that crap is so freakin easy, why is it the big tax programs always have bugs and require endless updates and patches to stay ahead of the tax man? Are you for a minute going to pretend your own code is 100% bug free all the time? Lol. Give me a break and take a good hard look into your own debugging mirror.
We're talking about a mom and pop company here, not a Fortune 500 member. I doubt he has consultants or a room full of programmers to get it right. I doubt he even has significant access to people who can define 'right' or best business practices. In the end he probably has himself. He can spend his day freaking with the computer, or maybe he can go sell some books.
It's a used book seller fer christsakes and we're a bunch of computer nerds with unrealistic expectations.
DMT
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antimatter
Apr 18, 2003, 4:35 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I agree. This is a fact but...it is not a good excuse! Who said anything about an excuse? I'm merely stating the facts. Burp on them all you wish, it changes nothing.
Then to you sir, I simply say, "You have a wonderful grasp of the obvious."
In reply to: We're talking about a mom and pop company here, not a Fortune 500 member. I doubt he has consultants or a room full of programmers to get it right. I doubt he even has significant access to people who can define 'right' or best business practices. In the end he probably has himself. He can spend his day freaking with the computer, or maybe he can go sell some books. It's a used book seller fer christsakes and we're a bunch of computer nerds with unrealistic expectations.
Naw, getting it right isn't that hard and I expect a business to either "get it right" or do their damned best to "make it right" after screwing up.
As far as my own, "bugs," there have been plenty. I've also paid 100% of the penalty & interest and compensated my customers for their lost time/aggravation. Seems like the right thing to do.
As far as being a fortune 500 company. Lol. There's 10 of us here and I am 1/2 of the programming staff.
So, there. :-)
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dingus
Apr 18, 2003, 4:51 PM
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In reply to: Then to you sir, I simply say, "You have a wonderful grasp of the obvious."
Thanks Bro! Considering this thread, that's tall praise indeed.
In reply to: Naw, getting it right isn't that hard and I expect a business to either "get it right" or do their damned best to "make it right" after screwing up.
I don't disagree. But we're still talking used books here. And Chessler is taking a highly public thrumping cause he dared to sell his last 'fair' copy of a book and didn't get the web site updated fast enough to suit a computer jock on the other side of the country. There's your profound grasp of the obvious.
In reply to: As far as my own, "bugs," there have been plenty. I've also paid 100% of the penalty & interest and compensated my customers for their lost time/aggravation. Seems like the right thing to do.
Well done! In the grand scheme of things, which of your 'wronged' customers gets the best and friendliest treatment... the polite ones who work with you or the ones who take a simple mistake and post it to a world wide discussion group?
In reply to: As far as being a fortune 500 company. Lol. There's 10 of us here and I am 1/2 of the programming staff. So, there. :-)
Cool, but you missed my point on purpose! I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to Walmart, Albertson's and Safeway, who can't get it right either.
We've each made our points. Ciao my friend,
DMT
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antimatter
Apr 18, 2003, 5:13 PM
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In reply to: Well done! In the grand scheme of things, which of your 'wronged' customers gets the best and friendliest treatment... the polite ones who work with you or the ones who take a simple mistake and post it to a world wide discussion group?
Since this thread has already gone way beyond the 'beating a dead horse' zone I'll answer your (rhetorical?) question. My customers all get the same treatment: a sincere apology and a sincere effort at recompense.
The bottom line here is that Chessler hasn't sincerely apologized. I want groveling, humility & maybe even a dozen roses. Can't we all just get along? :-)
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waltsa
Dec 29, 2005, 5:43 AM
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:( Seems like not a whole lot has changed with Chessler's dodgy business practices over the last few years - I have been trying to get my PAID FOR order from them for the last 6 months to no avail! Truly a very crooked bunch.....
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curt
Dec 29, 2005, 5:53 AM
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Shut up and die.
Curt
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billcoe_
Dec 29, 2005, 3:39 PM
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In reply to: :(Seems like not a whole lot has changed with Chessler's dodgy business practices over the last few years - I have been trying to get my PAID FOR order from them for the last 6 months to no avail! Truly a very crooked bunch.....
Since that is your FIRST and only post on RC.com and you chose to be anonymous with no specific details of your alledged transaction, the rest of us have to assume that you are a liar.
I have had many transactions with Chesslers over the years and have had no problems. EVER.
Thats me only.
People know who I am too.
What FredBob and Curt said earlier go for me too.
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moss1956
Dec 29, 2005, 4:37 PM
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Indeed,
I ordered a climbing guide for Devil's Tower and two videos from Chessler books. I was told the climbing guide was out of print. I never got my money back. I asked for my guide, or the money back and I got a reply that made it seem that he had no idea what I was talking about.
The videos I got. The price was incredible. Even with getting ripped off on the book, the total price was low. They were shrink wrapped as a set. One of them has a buzz going on for the duration of the tape. The other one is in good working order.
I can't and won't tell you what to do. It is pretty evident though that I am not a satisfied customer.
And, Bill Coe and Curt should note,
1. I have nothing to do with the post complaining about not getting their money back.
2. This is not my first post to this site.
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mike_ok
Dec 29, 2005, 4:59 PM
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When I saw this thread on the front page I cracked up. I don't remember why, but for some reason I really must have cared about this topic (at least, given my previous posts in it). Sometimes threads need to be allowed to die. Curt might as well have been referring to the thread as the person...
In reply to: shut up or die |
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happiegrrrl
Dec 29, 2005, 6:08 PM
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Well.....I am most inclined to see this thread from the perspective that Dingus purported bavk when the thread started.
It makes the most sense....but maybe that's because I ran - not walked - away from the world of BigBox, employees being referred to as "human resources" as if they should be kept in the supply cabinet with pencils and copy paper, customer is always right, even when they're on a lunatic tirade out on the sidewalk in front of the store because the clerk wasn't servile enough, because we have to shut their mouths....business.
I run my own small business, and it amazes me, the things that people expect. I get yelled at on the phone for not responding to an emailed query from a stranger within a hour. A client is passive/aggressively nasty to me becaue I don't write hundred words notes like my assistant does, when I walk their dog, even though it is under my direction that writing the notes(though not taking 10 minutes out of the 30m session to do so....) is part of her job description. Hyperactive people launching a bombardment of their needs for the day on the phone at 7am, not thinking for a moment that they might just be waking me up or interupting my morning. After all, it IS a business I am running, right? It's my fault that I run it from my home, not their concern.... Oh, it goes on and on. And on.
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billcoe_
Dec 30, 2005, 4:29 AM
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In reply to: Indeed, I ordered a climbing guide for Devil's Tower and two videos from Chessler books. I was told the climbing guide was out of print. I never got my money back. I asked for my guide, or the money back and I got a reply that made it seem that he had no idea what I was talking about. The videos I got. The price was incredible. Even with getting ripped off on the book, the total price was low. They were shrink wrapped as a set. One of them has a buzz going on for the duration of the tape. The other one is in good working order. I can't and won't tell you what to do. It is pretty evident though that I am not a satisfied customer. And, Bill Coe and Curt should note, 1. I have nothing to do with the post complaining about not getting their money back. 2. This is not my first post to this site.
Moss: your post was well spoken. You experience sounds real and you sound truthful, that is the kind of post I want to see to be an informed consumer.
Thank you for sharing, and good luck.
BTW, A bit off-topic, I have a huge bookstore near my work, but I find that I love Amazon so much I buy crap (even climbing gear) from them all the time, and they are 100% perfect for me, as is REI. But when you are trying to repay a great guy for going way above and beyod the call of duty by leaving his house in El Portel unlocked for weeks so you can stay there while climbing in Yos - and he's on the other side of the country. It's nice to do something nice like send a signed collectible copy of a climbing book as a unique way of thanking them (Last spring it was the newer Steve Roper book) .
Only Chestlers has that kind of yazoo and flif-flaf. Maybe next time I'll send a plant, but who knows?
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waltsa
Dec 31, 2005, 2:02 PM
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I actually found this website by searching Google to find people who have had problems with Chessler Books, hence it being my first post (does that matter however) - and as you would see if you read some of the older posts, many have. I apologize because my original post did not include the details and was left while I was still fuming over Chesslers service, so here goes: I ordered 2 books from them in June and both "were sent" at different times (+- 3 months apart), yet neither has ever arrived. Chessler claims they have no proof of sending them (i.e. no tracking number, no PO slip etc) which is very unusual for a mail order business. They have been refusing to answer my emails - I have sent about 4, to no avail - so that leaves me out of pocket by about $80; which lead to me posting the message to see if I can get a helpful response from someone (i.e. not just silly insults). I am glad you (billcoe) have always received your books ordered from them - maybe that's because it was not an international order....
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cruzit
Jan 4, 2006, 9:52 PM
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All I can say is order from Chessler's at your own risk. The one and only time my husband ordered from them he paid full price for what he expected to be a guidebook, but turned out to be several pages of photocopies (poor quality at that) of said guidebook stapled in the middle. Can you say copyright violation boys and girls!!! When we e-mailed Chessler and questioned him concerning the matter, he basically told us to stick it up our @ss. A real piece of work.
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aces
Jun 20, 2006, 5:52 PM
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I know this is an old thread but I was really surprised to find negative things written about Chessler books.
I've bought from them for over a decade and always had great service, great help, great products and great prices. I think his fault is that he's a small old mail order company that now has to compete with amazon and stuff. I once spent an entire day in his store in evergreen (when it was still open) and had a great time talking to him and his wife who run the company together. It was a great store and they didn't mind at all when I didn't buy anything after sitting around reading all day.
Anyway, I'm sure not everyone has a great experience with any company but it always seems only the dissatified customers write making the company seem horrible. Since I've ordered SO much over SO many years I couldn't help but leave a positive comment when googled for his website and found this thread.
I hope it encourges people to know that some people have had really good experiences with the company even though some people have not.
I can imagine that they have their problems since they are such a small company but they are not all bad as this tread may suggest.
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sspssp
Jun 20, 2006, 6:11 PM
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Customers satisfaction vary and yes, you hear more from unhappy customers. But I had an unhappy experience with Chessler books also.
I phone ordered an out-of-print book (and I was delighted to find somebody with a copy) and I asked for overnight delivery. I didn't ask when it could be shipped (my big time mistake), but you might, just might, think that if somebody was paying for overnight delivery they are in a bit of a hurry--if you can't ship immediately you might say something.
It showed up 8 weeks later. And to twist the knife around just a little bit more, they shipped it overnight. After I've gotten back from my climbing trip, do you really think I still wanted to pay $20 bucks for overnight shipping.
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blubeard
Jun 27, 2007, 7:24 PM
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I have been shocked by the rude service at Chessler books. I am very suspicious about the individuals who have posted positive reviews for them in this forum, it seems that those positive reviews were their first and only posts on this website.....hummmmm
Can I state again how RUDE and SLOW they are.
NEVER BUY ANYTHING FROM THEM, it sounds like me and many other people have lived to REGRET IT!
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happiegrrrl
Jun 27, 2007, 7:58 PM
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blubeard wrote: I have been shocked by the rude service at Chessler books. I am very suspicious about the individuals who have posted positive reviews for them in this forum, it seems that those positive reviews were their first and only posts on this website.....hummmmm Can I state again how RUDE and SLOW they are. NEVER BUY ANYTHING FROM THEM, it sounds like me and many other people have lived to REGRET IT!
.....coming from a user who joined less than a week ago, what weight should your comment be given? I've heard plenty of satisfied poeple who have dealt with Chessler. But, you know, if it's *customer's always right* service you need, I see that Barnes & Noble now has rare and first editions available. Maybe next time you seek a collector's book on mountaineering they will be able to help you out with that.
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