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climbingbetty22
Feb 1, 2006, 4:00 AM
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Owing to my near negative arm-to-ass ration, try as I may, I can't do a full pull-up. Recently when I'm at the gym, after doing some cardio, I'll go do a few "cheater pull-ups" on the military press machine. By cheater pull-up I mean that I only go halfway down, to a locked off position and pull-up from there. I'm just looking for some feedback....will doing even just these cheater ones help build some upper body strength or should I just not waste my time until I can do the real thing?
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ivarboneless
Feb 1, 2006, 4:28 AM
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Every little bit helps. If all you can do is go halfway down and pull up start with that. Or you could start at the top and lower down slowly.
I built up to one arm chins by starting halfway up and pulling until my chin was over the bar. But now I hear that starting at the top and slowly lowering would have worked faster.
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anykineclimb
Feb 1, 2006, 5:14 AM
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something is better than nothing. But full extension pullups would be better.
alternatives/ modifications can include:
Jumping- jump up every time into a pullup and lower yourself down slowly
Negatives- same without the jumping. use a lower bar and work on just lowering yourself
Assisted- get a Thera Band or other rubber elastic thingy. tie into a loop. hold onto one end and put foot in other. it'll take some weight off you.
Also, if you're going to a "regular" gym, they may have one of those assisted weight pullup machine thingys. you stand on a platform and add a certain amount of counterweight to yourself.
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collegekid
Feb 1, 2006, 5:35 AM
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Has someone been cheating at pull-ups again? Time to call the Pull Up Police.
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granite_grrl
Feb 1, 2006, 11:49 AM
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I'm big on the lowering down from the bar if I don't have the equipment/partners to do assisted pullups.
I think the best assisted pullups that I've done are ones when you have another person take a little bit of weight off you (bend your knees, have them hold your shins or arounf your ankles). They won't be able to take off much weight so you'll still have to do most of the work, but they can adjust how much weight they take off you, so you can just get that last full pullup in (with a bit of extra help ;) ).
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backspace
Feb 2, 2006, 2:50 PM
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next time your at the barn goto the overhanging rails by the back door...
pull up with the feet on (overhung) to lock off position, then slowly let your feet cut - lock off and hang, and lower yourself slowly to dead straight arm hang...
then put your feet feet back on and pullup... lock off and repeat... keeping doing these - slowly till exhaution EVERY time...
soon enough normal pullups will be easy...
lowering very slowly from lock off is great way to build the strength...
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bill413
Feb 2, 2006, 3:04 PM
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I think there are two components to doing a pullup - the strength to do one, and the pattern learning to fire the appropriate muscles at the right time (kinesthetic learning?). Lowering will definitely help with the strength part. But, to "learn to do them" the best way is to do assisted pull-ups.
The learning part is often neglected, because the people that can do them learned to do them longggggg ago, and don't realize that there was anything to learn.
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jt512
Feb 2, 2006, 9:05 PM
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In reply to: Owing to my near negative arm-to-ass ration, try as I may, I can't do a full pull-up. Recently when I'm at the gym, after doing some cardio, I'll go do a few "cheater pull-ups" on the military press machine. By cheater pull-up I mean that I only go halfway down, to a locked off position and pull-up from there. I'm just looking for some feedback....will doing even just these cheater ones help build some upper body strength or should I just not waste my time until I can do the real thing?
Assisted pull-ups would be more effective, I would think. Have a spotter take some weight off using a "power spot." It should not be difficult to find guys willing to do this.
Jay
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gyngve
Feb 2, 2006, 9:14 PM
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A better way to do assisted pullups is to have a bench behind you so that you can bend your knees and rest your feet (or use a lower pullup bar).
http://www.bodyresults.com/E2FloorPullup.asp
It's important to do the full range of motion for a pullup, starting from straight arms to your WHOLE head above the bar. You're cheating yourself by doing the chin-reaching and calling it good enough.
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mingleefu
Feb 2, 2006, 9:29 PM
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How are you doing assisted pullups on a military press machine? The "military press" is the exercise where you sit upright and push weight straight above your head... its the exact opposite from a pullup.
Nonetheless, you should consider finding your way to the lat pull down machine. You can adjust the weight until it is suitable for your strength, and perform the same motion as a pull up.
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climbingbetty22
Feb 3, 2006, 6:26 AM
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I do train on the lat-pull up machine. It is my favorite machine, so I do it with more frequency and regularity then any other weight-lifting exercise. I can't say that I've noticed any appreciable gains in strength translating to climbing however.
As for the military press thing.. yeah, what I was thinking was a military press in apparently not. Anyhow, the machine is the kind with a bar that has hooks on either end and you can adjust the height using various pegs on either side. I believe normal folk do some sort of squats with it. I'm not that familar with the weight training part of the gym, I'm more interested in doing cardio; I didn't realize that a military press was a type of shoulder exercise. :oops: :roll:
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davidji
Feb 3, 2006, 8:16 AM
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In reply to: I do train on the lat-pull up machine. It is my favorite machine, so I do it with more frequency and regularity then any other weight-lifting exercise. I can't say that I've noticed any appreciable gains in strength translating to climbing however. |
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dough
Feb 3, 2006, 8:52 AM
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Cheaters never prosper.
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tommez
Feb 3, 2006, 10:09 AM
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[quote="climbingbetty22"]I do train on the lat-pull up machine. It is my favorite machine, so I do it with more frequency and regularity then any other weight-lifting exercise. quote]
How many reps do you do? Instead of doing 8, 10, 12 or 15 reps, do fewer reps near your max. Also do negative pull-ups. When you can do pull-ups on a bar, move over to a fingerboard or something similar. But what is your goal? Do you want to be stronger, or a stronger climber?
I also did a lot of weight-lifting exercises earlier hoping that it would make me a stronger climber, but it did not. I did this for years, but was not able to push into the higher grades. Instead I started to do my strength training by doing systematic exercises in the bouldering room and by using campus board and finger board etc, and also focusing a LOT on technique which lead to a giant leap in my climbing ability in one winter with indoor systematized training. These days I only do a little bit of weight-training, only to prevent injuries, and I continue to push the grades and getting stronger and better at climbing by doing the things I've mentioned above.
I don't have the time to mention my training program, and you should by the way make your own from your standing point. But check out what fluxus have to say about training on this site. In my opinion and experience, he has a lot of the right answers.
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theman
Feb 3, 2006, 2:29 PM
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if you're not cheating you're not trying
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dukeandbeads
Feb 3, 2006, 8:40 PM
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I can't do a pull up, either. I've been working out with our gym's strength guru, and he started me on rings (better for core stability) with my hands at shoulder height. My feet were on either a BOSU ball or a bench. I'd fully extend my arms, then pull up from a sitting position.
So, slowly I'm headed toward that first unassited pullup.
I don't call it cheating--more like training in stages. Better for older bodies like mine. reduces the chance of injury and frustration.
Anne
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iamthewallress
Feb 3, 2006, 8:54 PM
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I find pull ups on rock-rings easier on my neck and shoulders and a little bit easier to do than pullups on the bar.
Uneven pull-ups (see Horsts training book) where you have one hand gripping a towel or rope slightly below the bar are also easier than regular pull ups and look, to me, a bit more like the body position that I'm in when I'm trying to pull up on rock. These also tweak my neck and shoulders less than regular pull-ups.
Going to grips on the wall, smearing my feet (no holds!) and pulling up to lock off, then sinking back to the smears w/ bent knees is also a good way to train climbing relevant pull up strength along w/ grip strength.
Climbing lots, the lat machine, and losing weight all contributed to my seemingly quantum leap from no-pull-ups to several pull-ups.
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gyngve
Feb 4, 2006, 1:16 AM
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In reply to: if you're not cheating you're not trying
I'd rather keep the full ROM on a reduced weight than shrink the motion on the same weight.
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southtxtraveler
Feb 4, 2006, 2:29 AM
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I dont get it, I can do many pullups, but I cant climb shit!
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rad_dog
Feb 11, 2006, 3:18 PM
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Just keep using that lat pull down machine. You will eventually get strong enough to do regular pullups. Don't overdo it. Use a comfortable wide grip and if you are training for a strength/endurance combo start out with 10-13 reps per set. Do three or four sets and you should have enough weight on the last set so that you can only get 7 or 8 reps. Take your time and slowly move your weight up. You may want to keep the first set as a warm up and increase the weight mostly on the last set. Most trainers recommend you avoid the behind the neck version. Do a full upward extension and slowly pull down to the top of your breastbone. Don't load the weights up so heavy that you have to snatch it down, a slow controlled motion is safer and more like what you will do when climbing.
I think overhead presses (aka military presses) have little benefit for a climber. Better to add some light dumbell laterals and front raises for the shoulders. You should probably include some machine pullovers and low pulley rows to complete your back work. Balance out with some tricep work like pushdowns. Dumbell flys is also a good chest/shoulder exercise that will add strength to those muscles without the bulk you might get from bench presses.
I used to know a lady who could not do one pullup but could follow 5.11 sport and lead 5.10 sport. She had good grip strength and footwork. I think pullups are over-rated unless you climb a lot of overhangs.
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