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thorne
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Apr 24, 2006, 4:05 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: It's like people take rare instances and convince themselves this is a regular occurance. :? An ex-girlfriend's mother once called me a heathen. :lol: A heathen!
In reply to: I wonder what would happen if somebody produced an atheism-evengelizing TV show. If I got on the airwaves and preached that there is no God, would there be a backlash?
Hey Boondock,
Go see if you find a historian, without a religious/anti-religious agenda, who supports your belief that the net effect of Christianity has been negative.
It's easy to cherry pick facts to skew your case.
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wjca
Apr 24, 2006, 4:20 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: It's like people take rare instances and convince themselves this is a regular occurance. :? come back here and tell me that its all in my head. An ex-girlfriend's mother once called me a heathen. :lol: A heathen! I've stopped telling people I'm an atheist when religion comes up in a face-to-face setting. It's just not worth the trouble. :idea: I wonder what would happen if somebody produced an atheism-evengelizing TV show. If I got on the airwaves and preached that there is no God, would there be a backlash?
I have a similar idea. Everytime one of these religious/anti-religious threads arise, I'm gonna start posting some rather unappealing pictures of fat men and women doing yoga, riding a bicycle or eating. Why the fuck do these threads keep popping up? It is the same stupid, go-nowhere discussion with the same people making the same tired arguments. It always, always ends with "Well, I'm rubber and you're glue." Well, I say NO MORE!! So keep it up and test my resolve, and I will wear out google image search.
Where is blowboarder and hangerless and qdiggety? They wouldn't put up with this nonsense.
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unabonger
Apr 24, 2006, 4:46 PM
Post #30 of 117
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In reply to: We don't let people we care about do just anything they want and support them regardless. If we care about them, we try to set them straight when they make choices that are bad for them. Don't you think that's how PTC's care is expressed?
The thought of you two setting anything straight between you is just disturbing, not only on the crude level but in your utter faith in yourself to make the best choices for other people.
I beg you, care naught for me, I don't need your help to make choices.
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coloredchalker
Apr 24, 2006, 4:49 PM
Post #31 of 117
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In reply to: In reply to: Tell us, why do you hate christianity so much? oh here's a quick and good one THE CONCISE HISTORY OF THE WESTERN WORLD DATING BACK TO CONSTANTINE
Boondock- do you spend your valuable time fighting muslims? Because some for their fanatical fringes use religion to further their agendas? And the list goes on...
Maybe I should list all the contradictions we find in secular humanism, would that be fun reading for you? The guy that put up that site just shows that he has no real knowleddge of the book he is quoting. Sure some dates don't match, or wieghts don't line up with what we use today, 4000 years later, how does that reflect poorly on the whole book or the whole religious movement? (I only had enough time to glance at one of the "contradiction" threads.) This guy is obvviously uneducated about the Bible, biased, and doesn't care what the facts really say. Boondock, surely you don't align yourself with that, though it appears that way.
So, here is an offer for you, BD, I will buy you a book and send it to you that deals with some of these so called "contradictions". But, I'll only do this if you think you can read with an open mind willing to learn, even if it curbs your preconcieved notions. (I'm not asking you to convert at all.) If that is of no interest to you then go back to reading the sites that only say what you want to hear. Post your response here and you can pm me your address. Nope, I'm not going to tell you the title, my perrogative.
Aaron
2Ti 4:3 -
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers (or websites) to say what their itching ears want to hear.
Italics added
Edited for misinformation.
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j_ung
Apr 24, 2006, 4:50 PM
Post #32 of 117
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: It's like people take rare instances and convince themselves this is a regular occurance. :? An ex-girlfriend's mother once called me a heathen. :lol: A heathen! This is my point Jay. How long ago was this? How many times has it happened since?
My point had everything to do with severity and nothing to do with frequency. But it should not be taken to mean that similar, admittedly less offensive, instances occur more often then not.
In a 1999 Gallup poll, 48% of the respondents declared that they would never vote for an atheist running for president. Other demographics included Jews, blacks, Mormons, Roman Catholics, gays and more. Of them all, atheists were the least likely to win the office -- based only on personal beliefs!
Thorne, I'm glad you don't look down on me for my beliefs, but you're not typical in that regard. Take my one-month challenge and find out first hand. Maybe I'll do the same, write down the responses and impressions I get and report back.
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jeremy9876543
Apr 24, 2006, 4:57 PM
Post #33 of 117
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In reply to: In reply to: I suppose one good thing Christianity did was to promote art but that propaganda was well worth their money. Boondock, without the church there would have been no renaissance. They were almost single-handedly responsible for the development of western art. They were also the main force behind the development of architecture, engineering, eduation, literacy, health care, psychology, literacy, economics, banking, literature and almost every other spect of our culture. Your idea that christianity is universally bad is in stark contrast to the historical facts.
Tradman,
While I don't doubt the church's role in the renaissance, whithout the church there would not have been the dark ages that the renaissance was a coming out of. With the church's suppression of literature, science and even mathmatics during that period it is hypocritical of you to give the church credit for the later period of the renaissance. In fact Islam should be given credit for keeping much of mathmatics, and greek philosophy from being destroyed, although we never will know how much was completely lost through destruction by the christian church.
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styndall
Apr 24, 2006, 5:03 PM
Post #34 of 117
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In reply to: How about athiests, do you hate them? Because Hitler certaintly didn't make them look good. And the list goes on...
uh...
In reply to: The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfill God's will, and not let God's word be desecrated. For God's will gave men their form, their essence and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will.
In reply to: “Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.”
In reply to: And now Staatspräsident Bolz says that Christianity and the Catholic faith are threatened by us. And to that charge I can answer: In the first place it is Christians and not international atheists who now stand at the head of Germany. I do not merely talk of Christianity, no, I also profess that I will never ally myself with the parties which destroy Christianity. If many wish today to take threatened Christianity under their protection, where, I would ask, was Christianity for them in these fourteen years when they went arm in arm with atheism? No, never and at no time was greater internal damage done to Christianity than in these fourteen years when a party, theoretically Christian, sat with those who denied God in one and the same Government.
In reply to: “We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.”
In reply to: Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith.
Hitler may have been many things, but an atheist is not on that list.
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styndall
Apr 24, 2006, 5:05 PM
Post #35 of 117
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In reply to: How about athiests, do you hate them? Because Hitler certaintly didn't make them look good. And the list goes on...
uh...
In reply to: The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfill God's will, and not let God's word be desecrated. For God's will gave men their form, their essence and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will.
In reply to: “Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.”
In reply to: And now Staatspräsident Bolz says that Christianity and the Catholic faith are threatened by us. And to that charge I can answer: In the first place it is Christians and not international atheists who now stand at the head of Germany. I do not merely talk of Christianity, no, I also profess that I will never ally myself with the parties which destroy Christianity. If many wish today to take threatened Christianity under their protection, where, I would ask, was Christianity for them in these fourteen years when they went arm in arm with atheism? No, never and at no time was greater internal damage done to Christianity than in these fourteen years when a party, theoretically Christian, sat with those who denied God in one and the same Government.
In reply to: “We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.”
In reply to: Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith.
Hitler may have been many things, but an atheist is not on that list.
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coloredchalker
Apr 24, 2006, 5:12 PM
Post #36 of 117
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hmmm, ok, I'll remove that statement. Thanks for your correction. I'll have go see where I got that idea from...
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thorne
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Apr 24, 2006, 5:15 PM
Post #37 of 117
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In reply to: Maybe I'll do the same, write down the responses and impressions I get and report back.
I'm not naive enough to think the average citizen of Fayette county would be indifferent about this. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Considering I never saw a black person in Fayetteville until I stayed on King Drive (where I saw and spoke to quite a few), I'd say the majority of the town's residents are not real big on embracing differences. :wink:
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thorne
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Apr 24, 2006, 5:22 PM
Post #38 of 117
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In reply to: Maybe I'll do the same, write down the responses and impressions I get and report back.
I'm not naive enough to think the average citizen of Fayette county would be indifferent about this. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Considering I never saw a black person in Fayetteville until I stayed on King Drive (where I saw and spoke to quite a few), I'd say the majority of the town's residents are not real big on embracing differences. :wink:
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thorne
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Apr 24, 2006, 5:42 PM
Post #39 of 117
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In reply to: Hitler may have been many things, but an atheist is not on that list.
Ever wonder why Hilter's "use" of Christianity in his speeches practically disappeared once came into power? Anything after August 2, 1934?
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styndall
Apr 24, 2006, 5:52 PM
Post #40 of 117
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In reply to: In reply to: Hitler may have been many things, but an atheist is not on that list. Ever wonder why Hilter's "use" of Christianity in his speeches practically disappeared once came into power? Anything after August 2, 1934?
You can look as well as I can.
I know that many modern Christians want desperately to associate a lack of belief in God with immoral behavior, but in actuality atheists can be quite moral people. I actually get fairly often accused of being 'too nice' or 'too straight-laced' by my friends, many of whom are fairly devout people.
Being an ethical person has basically zero to do with religious faith.
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thorne
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Apr 24, 2006, 5:56 PM
Post #41 of 117
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In reply to: Being an ethical person has basically zero to do with religious faith.
Wow :shock:
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styndall
Apr 24, 2006, 6:16 PM
Post #43 of 117
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In reply to: In reply to: Being an ethical person has basically zero to do with religious faith. Wow :shock:
Why wow?
Do you really need someone watching over you in the sky, preparing rewards and punishments, in order to do what you know is right?
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carabiner96
Apr 24, 2006, 6:20 PM
Post #44 of 117
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In reply to: Being an ethical person has basically zero to do with religious faith.
I agree here, while it may have to do with faith, it need not be required of RELIGIOUS faith.
Also, 15000 atheists were murdered in the holocaust for their lack-of beliefs.
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thorne
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Apr 24, 2006, 6:26 PM
Post #45 of 117
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It seems like there's a lot of evidence that Hitler was not a Christian. At the same time, I don't think he was an Atheist, either.
Regardless, he seemed to be the living embodiment of evil.
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coloredchalker
Apr 24, 2006, 6:47 PM
Post #46 of 117
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In reply to: It seems like there's a lot of evidence that Hitler was not a Christian. At the same time, I don't think he was an Atheist, either. Regardless, he seemed to be the living embodiment of evil.
Yeah, catholic, athiest, whatever, the point stands that just because a person or people do something in the name of a system of beliefs doesn't mean they represent the majority or the foundations of the system.
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j_ung
Apr 24, 2006, 7:27 PM
Post #48 of 117
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In reply to: In reply to: The "care" responsible consenting adults want comes in the form of respect and equality. That's where PTC's care for gay people goes awry. We don't let people we care about do just anything they want and support them regardless. If we care about them, we try to set them straight when they make choices that are bad for them. Don't you think that's how PTC's care is expressed?
That would be great if we were discussing the care one friend has for another or the care a parent has for a child. But we're talking about billions of people trying to make decisions for millions of people, because they believe the minority is immoral. That is not my definition of care, but it is my definition of self-righteousness. And if it's your definition of care, then thanks, but no thanks. I really don't want that kind of care.
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petsfed
Apr 24, 2006, 7:35 PM
Post #49 of 117
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In reply to: In reply to: The "care" responsible consenting adults want comes in the form of respect and equality. That's where PTC's care for gay people goes awry. We don't let people we care about do just anything they want and support them regardless. If we care about them, we try to set them straight when they make choices that are bad for them. Don't you think that's how PTC's care is expressed?
No. First, the bible verses in the quotes. Not there anymore, but we all remember them. C'mon, if you want to gently nudge someone, you don't whack 'em over the head with the message, or use divine wrath as a deterrant. Second, the repeated use of the words "heathen", "unsaved", "wicked", don't exactly imply (or engender) good will.
As far as a widespread antipathy towards atheists, its there. Its definitely there in every red state across the country. Like I said in another thread, the average schmoe is not terribly bright, is somewhat religious and kind of wants to live in the country. Somewhat dim + somewhat religious = somewhat easily controlled. So unless I'm talking with someone I trust (or Mormons, the persecuted tend to be less judgemental), I get very evasive on the subject. I don't want to be preached to, told that I'm going to hell, or stand through a "holier than though" smugness for the rest of the day. Ever had to lie about your faith to your grandmother? I have. Sure the extremists might not be representative of the whole, but it only takes one highly vocal jackass to make you learn to keep it under wraps. Fred Phelps anyone?
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tisar
Apr 24, 2006, 8:07 PM
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In reply to: The person is never unwanted. I said that in the thread you're referring to as well. The biological condition they have, however, may well be unwanted.
Whyever in this case. Your basic argument (gay people cannot/will not have children) is wrong in so many ways. Just to name three: 1.) I bet even strictly gay people in average have more children than, say, catholic priests. 2.) Besides that most people I know aren't strictly gay (as most aren't strictly straight). And 3.) having children is at best will not universally the meaning of human life.
In reply to: You'd do well to learn the difference between a person and their actions. It would help you understand my point about homosexuality, and it would help you understand why guys like me and pinktricam continue to post here and care about the people despite the abuse we get for it.
I do well know the difference between persons and their genetics. Their actions on the other hand are in this case widely part of the character and personality. If you tell me that a huge part of my life, a source of fun, satisfaction and self esteem, is 'wrong' and worth being eliminated (for further generations, but still), you are insulting me. Genetic or not.
If you'd open your eyes (and your mind) for just a moment, you'll find hundreds of thousands gay people out there living their own thing to their own satisfation and often to great advantage of the society. To declare the (asumed) biological basics of their choice in life style are not worth to exist is ignorant at best.
And for the abused part... I'm pretty sure, you'll get over it :D
- Daniel
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