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socalbolter
Oct 4, 2006, 3:19 AM
Post #26 of 35
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Registered: Mar 27, 2002
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It doesn't take someone all that strong to spin the head right off a Rawl 5-piece, or to break a stud bolt off at the threads. I personally know of several very experienced bolters who have had this happen at one time or another.
It's already been pointed out by many posters, but the advice to tighten loose bolts as much as you can is flat out wrong. You will break the bolt, and if you happen to be clipped into it at the time, you'll be going for a ride!
Hand tighten the bolt and let someone locally who is familiar with bolting (on rock) repair the situation in whatever way he/she deems best.
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slobmonster
Oct 4, 2006, 3:33 AM
Post #27 of 35
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Registered: Jul 28, 2003
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Obviously, hand-tightening a spinning nut is a good thing to do. Given freeze-thaw cycles (in addition to numerous other factors), sometimes things just loosen up (like your mom last night).
I am fairly confident --please correct me if I am wrong-- that it is very difficult to over-torque most bolts with a 4" wrench. I went out and bought a set of stubby wrenches purely for bolting, and I've had good results so far; the only bolt In have broken was a stud that I hammered in too deep, and in an attempt to draw some more threads out, SNAP.
If you have BD ice tools, check the wrench that came with it, this fits many 3/8" bolt heads.
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sbaclimber
Oct 4, 2006, 3:39 AM
Post #28 of 35
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Registered: Jan 22, 2004
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In reply to: .....sometimes things just loosen up (like your mom last night).
In reply to: I am fairly confident --please correct me if I am wrong-- that it is very difficult to over-torque most bolts with a 4" wrench. |
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socalbolter
Oct 4, 2006, 3:56 AM
Post #29 of 35
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Yep, a bolt can be overtightened and even broken with a 4" wrench.
The only reason folks resort to a breaker bar when intentionally breaking old bolts is that the nut has rusted/corroded/bonded to the bolt shaft (or the stud has done the same to the expansion cone with a 5-piece) and is no longer turning independent of the other.
Otherwise they could use a 4" wrench and not have to bother lugging around the bigger piece of metal.
A very well-known FA bolter I know does not use 3/8" Rawls (favoring 1/2 inchers instead) just because of the fear of over tightening or breaking bolts. I won't name names, but it would probably surprise people if they knew who I was talking about. This person is very knowledgeable when it comes to this stuff, but after breaking a few bolts unexpectedly he chose to remove this possibility from his personal bolting experience. To a certain degree, I tend to agree with him and wonder how many overly-tightened (or worse: stress fractured) bolts are out there waiting to fail at absurdly low stress levels.
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braxtron
Oct 4, 2006, 6:14 AM
Post #30 of 35
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Registered: Apr 9, 2003
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Why not use a lock washer to keep the nut and hanger from becoming loose?
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overlord
Oct 4, 2006, 6:36 AM
Post #31 of 35
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Registered: Mar 25, 2002
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In reply to: In reply to: if its at the new (New River Gorge), get your hand wrench and tighten it down as hard as you can. If it breaks, then it was a bad bolt! We use a huge breaker bar to break old bolts... I don't know anything about the bolts at NRG, but I would be a bit wary about this particular advice. Other people have reported breaking off bolts without the help of a breaker-bar, and I know for a fact that depending on how stronge you are, you can easily tighten some bolts well beyond their recommended torque with just a normal wrench. Personally, I wouldn't be worried about the bolt you tightened down as much as you could and snapped off, but rather the one that didn't snap. How close is it now to snapping? Do you know? :shock: I think chossmonkey's advice was a lot more sensible.
dont you know sarcasm when you see it??
anyway, if a hanger on an expansion bolt spins a bit, its not a big deal. expansion bolts need to be tightened to a certain torque and sometimes that leaves a bit of room for the hanger to spin. overtightening might actually damage them.
glue in bolts are a totally different ballgame. those shouldnt spin or move at all. if one or more do, you should replace them.
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boltdude
Oct 4, 2006, 6:37 AM
Post #32 of 35
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Registered: Sep 30, 2002
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To answer the question, if you don't know what you are doing:
Hand-tighten ONLY (unless the bolt can obviously be tightened a lot more and is just hung up on a burr, etc).
Another reason is that nuts break after repeated tightening cycles, so if everyone tightens a nut with a wrench and it still loosens up, sooner or later it will break.
Fixe bolts are just like any other bolt - tighten the bolt too much and it will break. I have broken the 3/8"/10mm Fixe bolts with a 6" wrench with little trouble. While unscrewing bolts for anchor replacement work, I have repeatedly broken 3/8" 5-piece bolts that had been overtorqued during installation - again with 6" wrenches.
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sbaclimber
Oct 4, 2006, 7:40 AM
Post #33 of 35
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Registered: Jan 22, 2004
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In reply to: dont you know sarcasm when you see it??
It wasn't made very clear what part of the post was the sarcasm and what wasn't (there was some serious advice in there as well), and I highly doubt the OP would have been able to tell the difference.
Sarcasm aside, as the post was written, it was a stupid thing to say to someone who obviously didn't know the answer to their honest and valid question.
Obviously many other people who responded "didn't know sarcasm when they saw it" either :roll:
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overlord
Oct 4, 2006, 8:34 AM
Post #34 of 35
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Registered: Mar 25, 2002
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well, i didnt want to single you out. i just picked the first post of the bunch. it wasnt meant as a personal attack.
and i do agree, that sarcasm shouldve been clearly marked. that is the major reason for my post. to make sure ppl know he was joking, and even if he wasnt, hes post should still be considered a joke :wink:
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sbaclimber
Oct 4, 2006, 8:54 AM
Post #35 of 35
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Registered: Jan 22, 2004
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In reply to: and even if he wasnt, hes post should still be considered a joke :wink: |
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