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elepita
Nov 22, 2006, 5:55 PM
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Hi all! I have been looking for a thread that talks about exercises for opposing muscles but I could not find any, sorry if I missed it. Anyway, I was wondering if any of you has any exercising routine for your opposing muscles that you could recommend me or if you knew of any web site or good book I could look into. I have some problems with unwanted muscle contractions in my back and apparently it might have something to do with my muscles being out of balance. Thanks in advance for your help! 
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jgloporto
Nov 22, 2006, 6:10 PM
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I don't know the answer to this but you might want to look at weight lifting routines that involve superset strategies. Supersets usually combine two or more lifts that work opposing muscle groups. Figuring climb tends to work your lats, front deltoids, triceps and forearms, you could look at the supersets that work those groups and pick the opposing excercises. I am curious to see what other people come up with on this because I have been trying to come up with a routine that balances with climbing as well.
Joe
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fluxus
Nov 22, 2006, 6:14 PM
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This thing is that the idea of opposing muscles is often misunderstood and misapplied by climbers. The relationship between aganoist and antagonist muscles is not fixed, it depends upon the joint action being considered.
One of the best climbing examples of this is that the extensor digitorum commonus is often described as the opposing muscle to the finger flexors. Now, in some actions this is exactly right, but not always, and I would add that it may rarely be the case in climbing.
Yet, climbers go on to describe how having weak extensors causes injury and that climbers need to develop their extensors. The problem with this is that it does not take into account the joint actions in climbing, and the fact that climbers tend to have well developed extensors because its an agonist in the action of wrist extension which climbers do all the time.
So if you want to know about opposing muscles you need to first ask about the movement in question and how that relates to climbing. Any general statements on the topic have a very high probably of being completely wrong. They may not be harmfull but they probably won't be of any use either.
Is there a specific problem or concern that you are worried about?
(This post was edited by fluxus on Nov 22, 2006, 6:31 PM)
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elepita
Nov 22, 2006, 6:34 PM
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He fluxus, thanks for your reply! btw, I really like your book! yes, it made it to spain thanks to amazon! Anyway, I have been climbing for a little over 2 years both trad and sport. Since I started climbing harder and pushing my climbing habilities I have been having problems with my back muscles getting to cramped up. Even though I stretch, warm up, cool down, and visit the physical therapist once in a while, they still get really stiff, especially my left side: levator scapula, traps, and muscles than run along the spine whose names I don't even know. They get so stiff that once in a while I experience a lot of pain that does not even let me turn my neck or look down to my feet. Last episode happened last week while bouldering at the gym (so I am out of climbing for a couple of weeks at least). I am stretchign as much as I can but it still happens and my physical therapist told me that it looks like I have my shoulders rotated forward. That is why I was wondering if working my ooposing muscles would help me improve my back injuries. What would you recommend? (I hope I explained myself well, English is not my native language...). Thanks again!
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hugin
Nov 27, 2006, 5:10 PM
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This is something I tend to wonder a bit about myself - particularly whether I take the right approach. I do yoga, which seems to help balance everything out pretty well, but on climbing training days, I try to work in exercises that involve motions opposite to those when climbing. We do a lot of pulling down and in, so I add exercises that push up and out.
At the very least, I was encouraged by the fact that I used to get some soreness in joints (particularly my elbows) at the start of a climbing day after rest, and once I started doing those sorts of exercises, I don't get that anymore. Perhaps someone with a more educated view can correct me if that's an ignorant approach.
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canada_climber
Dec 5, 2006, 4:14 AM
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There are many muscles making up the back of the spine. Levator Scapula runs from your scapula to the top 4 cervical vertebrae in your neck. Trapezius runs from the back of your head (the occiput) to the top of the scapula and then all along the spinous processes of your vertebrae to the lumbar. Levator scapula and the upper trapezius work to elevate the scapula, the lower trapezius will help to retract and depress the scapula. These are muscles are used in climbing but primarily it will be your latissimus dorsi. Levator and trapezius problems are usually related to sitting at a desk for long hours or being overly stressed. There are many, many more muscles that run down the centre of your spine. The main funciton of them is to extend the spine and rotate the spine to the opposite side. Many of the other muscles are used for proprioception. If you are having pain in the muscle you are likely fatiguing the muscle to the point that it is starting to cramp up and get tired. Try to go a wider range of activities such as yoga that take your back through a wider range of movement and strengthens the muscles in different ways then just climbing. Try to get a better strengthening program that works a wider variety of muscles. As previously mentioned, one of the muscles that usually becomes over developed in climbers is the latissimus dorsi. Getting a good massage will help. Active release is also a good option from a chiropractor or physical therapist. Active release will help to release any contractures or tight tissue that can be related to over use or injury. So in short, do different exercises to strenghthen the other parts of your back and go see a health professional to help with the muscle tighness!
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elepita
Dec 5, 2006, 5:28 PM
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Hi all, thanks very much for your replies. My neck and back are better after almost 4 weeks of not climbing....I cannot say the same thing for my brain though...I am going desperate....anyway, I rested a lot, not only from climbing but also from running (I also belong to a runnning club). I have gone many times to the physical therapist for massages and I also started doing some balance training with an specialist. Apparently my back is out of balance, that is what this specialist told me, and he made me do some exercises that apparently confirmed it. So I have started training with him to get my muscles more in balance. I am doing lots of stretching, and it does work. But I think what is helping the most is resting. I realized that I had not taken a week off for longer than a year, so my muscles probably needed a break...
Anyway, I cannot climb or run for another 2 weeks, in the meantime I do cardio on the eliptical trainer (so no impact as in running) and I am training in the gym to have a healthier back, not just huge traps, levator scapulas and biceps. In 2 weeks I can start climbing again but taking it easy so I don't shock my back, and of course I cannot quit the gym anymore if I don't want to have the same thing as I have been having.
Anyway, I have only been with this trainer twice so far, and we have been working on my shoulders, triceps and chest, and soem other small muscles in my back that apparently I am not using too much bc they are not trained.
Somebody said that technique helps, you are probably right. I have only been climbing for 2 years and in my case since I have a strong upper body technique is not coming natural, so I am probably pulling more than anything. Hopefully as I learn more I will realize that I have something attached to me called feet...
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fluxus
Dec 5, 2006, 5:41 PM
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elepita,
Thanks for the comment about the book, and thanks for the additional information. I too suffer from long term back pain so I emphathize with you. Think of you back as a system, pain in one area can be the result of different things happening in different areas of your body.
The fact that you stretch and do good warm-ups / cool downs suggests to me that there may be one or more different issues involved. But you need to have a doctor look at your back as a whole, assess your posture, look at the degree of tilt in your pelvis, the amount of curve in your lumbar and thorasic spine,etc (those are just some examples) The point is, knowledge is power, what you are doing now is not working so that suggests to me that you have not yet found the cause or causes.
since your shoulders are rotated forward work on stretching your Pectoralis Minor muscles, in climbers tight pec minors can be responsible for that forward movement of the shoulders. This could be a contributing factor to your pain but it may not be the only one.
Its impossible to give detailed description or help because the cause of your pain is unknown. Go to a doctor or kinesiologist and keep going to a doctor until they have provided you with a good description of the condition of your back as a whole and how the movements of your daily life and climbing effect that specific area and cause you pain. When you have this kind of description then coming up with a treatment that works will be possible. Be persistent, and good luck.
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