3. <this one is touchy> how many times, as women and/or noobs, have we gone out thinking "oh, my partner is more experienced I just have to know how to belay. I can just go enjoy the day nothing will happen anyway." <i've been there myself! but now that I've been climbing awhile know that that line of thinking is dwarnism at it's finest.>

Harness Hang Syndrom is real, and it has killed climbers. Kudos for bringing it up, since until recently, this issue has been little known, even to some rescue personnel (with dire consequences).
<snip>

Again, HHS is a serious potential issue for climbers. To the best I can understand from the literature, HHS ends in death if it goes untreated for an hour or so, and in some cases quite a bit less time is needed. But I encourage folks not to take my word on this one - search the literature and learn about it yourself.

Cheers!

GO

I'm also kind of skeptical about the role of "toxins" in death after lying someone down suddenly after they've been hanging in a harness for a prolonged period of time. The more likely explanation is probably overload of the circulatory system (ie right ventricular failure).

3. <this one is touchy> how many times, as women and/or noobs, have we gone out thinking "oh, my partner is more experienced I just have to know how to belay. I can just go enjoy the day nothing will happen anyway." <i've been there myself! but now that I've been climbing awhile know that that line of thinking is dwarnism at it's finest.>

HHS, the rapid loss of consciousness followed by death due to hanging immobile in a harness, happens in ALL harnesses and ascending systems. Someone hanging immobile in a seat harness is a serious medical emergency that must be dealt with immediately...
First, hanging immobile in a seat harness is the root cause of HHS....
Second, someone hanging immobile in a harness - any harness - is a dire medical emergency

clee03m, your poor skills at searching for studies notwithstanding, I'm boggled at how a health professional such as yourself could be so interested in poo-pooing what is a very serious health risk.

...

But using that position to try to invalidate this issue is, um, "unfortunate" at best.

Only study I found on the subject:
<study about hanging from chest harness in which subjects are mostly still fine after 3 minutes>
May be this study is relevant to women, though, since pregnant women tend to wear chest harness and with increased blood volume and decrease venous return, may be that right heart failure would be more likely.

Providing the full story (incuding contradictory evidence) is not poo pooing. It's just being fair

Not to mention, clee03m's is a RCT published in a peer-reviewed journal as opposed to a random article from texasroperescue.com (I don't generally base my medical practice on the top link on google).

Although it was commonly thought that research into suspension trauma was very limited, it was discovered during the course of this review that work had been carried out and papers published in 1968, 1972, 1978, 1979, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1990, 1991, 1997 and 1998. All these documents are reviewed, revealing ample evidence of the existence of the condition.

and anyway the only folks who *might* be affected are pregnant women. This could not be further from the truth.

I don't think she meant the ONLY people that would be affected is pregnant women...the OP put this in the womans forum but it is not women specific at all. I think she was just giving a little credit in that at least that study could be applied to a women specific issue (pregnant women use full body harnesses).

If you read the HSE report carefully, you'll note that of the 52 references, only a handful are published in peer-reviewed journals and of those, most of those are case reports.

In 1979, B A Nelson published the results of suspension tests by experienced climbers in an
article in the American climbing magazine Off Belay [13]. Four different models of sit harness
8
and one full body harness were used, plus a self-made sit harness formed from 25 mm wide
webbing, known as a Swiss seat harness and also a direct tie -in to the climbing rope using a
bowline-on-the-coil. The subjects were told to avoid moving while suspended.
A total of 65 tests were carried out. The mean suspension times ranged from 24 seconds for the
bowline-on-the-coil to just over 17 minutes in one of the sit harnesses. The maximum
suspension time for any test subject was 28 minutes in a (different) sit harness.
A variety of adverse effects were experienced in the 65 tests. These included lower body
numbness (25 cases), intense pain (21 cases), respiratory distress (8 cases), uncontrollable
shaking (4 cases), change in blood pressure (3 cases), loss of consciousness (2 cases), weak
pulse (1 case), and upper body numbness (1 case). The two cases of loss of consciousness
occurred despite efforts to terminate the suspension prior to loss of consciousness. The
suspension tests were also terminated in the event of severe pain, abnormally rapid heart rate,
numbness of the extremities or narrowing of the pulse pressure. Narrowing of the pulse pressure
was caused by harnesses that caused pain in the groin area, which was almost universally after
hanging vertically, but especially in the case of the full body harnesses.

...
The report led the Commission to consider the possibility of a new factor potentially responsible
for the cause of death: suspension in a sit harness. A test programme, sponsored by the Medical
Commission, was set up in 1984. The programme, carried out by M Amphoux, J Bariod, B
Théry et al, was to study the effects of hanging motionless while suspended in a harness, in the
same way that a caver, climber, or worker would be, if exhausted or unconscious [15], [16].
The results of the first few tests were so dramatic that they were stopped before they were
completed. “The first two volunteers fainted and experienced serious difficulties, one after only
six minutes of hanging.” [15], [16].
In this experiment, according to Bariod and Théry (1997) [17], two cavers were suspended with
instructions to avoid any movement. In each case, the onset of unconsciousness was observed
after 30 and seven minutes respectively, which necessitated brief resuscitation. The potential for
serious consequences following the phenomenon observed forced the interruption of the other
experiments that had been planned.
For the first time, they said, it could be confirmed that hanging motionless in a safety harness
used for caving could cause serious physiopathological disorders alone.
...
The test programme was re-established in 1986, this time in the Laboratory for Sports
Physiology of the University Clinic of Besançon/Doubs in France, with the full use of its
facilities. It was possible to monitor pulse, blood pressure, continuous electrocardiogram,11
electroencephalogram,12 and to conduct blood tests, including blood gases.
There were three human test subjects. The first was positioned in what would be a “real”
situation for an unconscious caver in a sit harness: his head in hyperextension (extension beyond
its normal limit), with his legs dangling under the level of his heart. The second test subject
wore a surgical collar to exclude the hyperextension and the third test subject had his legs
horizontal but with his head in hyperextension like the first.
After a period of between 12 and 30 minutes, all three subjects experienced considerable
difficulties. The first felt faint after ten minutes. The pulse had increased and blood pressure,
normal at 120/80, increased to 180/120. The subject felt faint, with hot flushes, paleness,
sweating and breathlessness. The hyperextension of the head was painful, and led to a quicker
faintness. A manual correction of the head hyperextension eased the problems, but within five
minutes the pulse accelerated again as well as blood pressure. The subject was released. In the
second case, the subject managed 20 minutes before becoming faint and the decision was taken
to disconnect him.
In the third case, the subject fainted, in spite the medical attention around him. This happened
even though the legs were in a high position.

Kind of leaves a question mark in my mind, if you ask me.