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dingus
Mar 22, 2007, 2:17 PM
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You boys done with your gang bang yet?
Couple of you bastards have lectured me for poor bahavior. Now you're piling on the 'retarded kid.' I don't expect to see you guys posting to this thread any futher, right???
DMT
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chalker7
Mar 22, 2007, 2:55 PM
Post #52 of 77
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carlkyline wrote: But I think I wont come back to these forums for a while.
Your kindness to my brain cells is duely noted and we thank you.
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cracklover
Mar 22, 2007, 3:18 PM
Post #53 of 77
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dingus wrote: You boys done with your gang bang yet? Couple of you bastards have lectured me for poor bahavior.
Not I, Mr Toast. I like you best when you've got a bee in your bonnet.
But if the kid really has a handicap, I apologize for ragging on him.
Whoever posted the noose - I do think that's a bit much.
GO
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markc
Mar 22, 2007, 3:25 PM
Post #54 of 77
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carlkyline wrote: Say you were belaying your buddy and about 30' up (somehow) they fall. Should you put a crash pad under them(if you have one) or should you catch them or should you turn your head and pray?
You've taken a lot of lumps, so I'll try to spare the flames. Carefully phrasing your questions and spelling out what you have in mind will usually yield better responses. Regarding your question, the answers will vary depending if we're talking about bouldering or roped climbing.
If you are bouldering, the crash pad(s) should already be placed to cover the spot of a likely fall or any hazards in the landing zone. If it's a highball problem (and 30' more than qualifies in my limited bouldering experience), your partner should know what she's getting into. You should try to spot as much as you can, although what you can do will probably be very limited. As others have said, no point in both partners getting hurt. If there are a few of you, one person can pay attention to the climber while another shuffles pads (say on a traversing route). However, the person moving pads should never be directly under the climber.
If you are belaying a leader, it's often good to spot the climber until the first clip. If the first clip is high or the landing is bad, this is especially the case. After the first clip, my job is belaying the climber. Partners check each other over before a climb, so I know my partner's harness is on correctly and she's tied in properly. I'll rely upon the system to protect my climber over any shenanigans.
On a sport route, the climber may be at risk around the second clip depending upon bolt spacing. However, I wouldn't abandon the belay unless a ground-fall was obvious and unavoidable. Being attentive and ready to take in slack or drop low might be more advisable.
On a traditional route, I'll usually tell the leader if she's looking at hitting the ground or a ledge due to running it out (if there are obvious options for protection). Protection choices are up to the leader, and the leader is often as aware of the situation as you are.
If there is a catastrophic failure in the system (harness failure, rope cutting on a sharp edge, etc.), you'll probably be standing there slack-jawed. I would, too, as that sort of failure is uncommon. The first rule of rescue is not to become another victim. You'll do your friend a bigger service if you're able to conduct first aid and summon help.
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crimpandgo
Mar 22, 2007, 3:50 PM
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kane_schutzman wrote: Please, don't take it personally. I have been here for 2 something years and still get shat on by some people. It's all in fun. Really though, please think about your post more before. People will take your more seriously. We are all climbers, stick around a bit....
why should he have to think more before posting? Maybe you should think more before responding.
The OPs question was an interesting one that eliciting a few good responses. Honestly, I would never get in the way of an average sized person falling this far due to potential injury. But I have invisioned what I might due if one of my kids came off in a situation like this. Maybe the knot wasn't tied correctly, etc. I am sure its paranoid thoughts. but when you feel responsible for the people on the other end of the rope you would be surprised what you are willing to do. There are numorous reports of people using using themselves to stop the fall of a fellow climber. A number of them have been pro climbers who made a mistake on belay and felt responsible enough to try and save their partner at their own expense
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kane_schutzman
Mar 22, 2007, 4:05 PM
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I was only talking about the lack of grammer, and the way he writes the post, its confusing. The question is an odd one, and I thought it was fine.
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dingus
Mar 22, 2007, 4:37 PM
Post #57 of 77
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Gravity acceleration = 32 ft. /sec/sec.
A traffic safety instructor once offered this commentary on the ability of humans to catch or stop high energy momentum (this was in relation to not wearing seatbelts and using one's arms to keep the head off the dashboard - it should work well here too)...
Stand back 30 feet from a brick wall. Now... run as fast as you can toward the wall, try to run through it. At the very last second throw your hands up (but don't break stride) - see if you can keep your face from smashing into the bricks.
Good luck with that.
Now imagine trying to catch a 150 pounds that has accelerated through 30 feet of clean air. Haha.
Your arms may as well be stalks of wheat.
DMT
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nthusiastj
Mar 22, 2007, 4:57 PM
Post #58 of 77
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carlkyline wrote: well, since my first thread went well and everyone has ripped me to pieces. i would like to thank you for being total dicks to me.
The real question you have to ask yourself is: How many other people read this thread and held back from being a total dick to you by not replying.
I'd say take the (number of posts) - (number of views). +/- 3% error.
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boku
Mar 22, 2007, 5:08 PM
Post #59 of 77
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dingus wrote: Your arms may as well be stalks of wheat.
I think that might be my new sig line.
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crimpandgo
Mar 22, 2007, 5:53 PM
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dingus wrote: Gravity acceleration = 32 ft. /sec/sec. A traffic safety instructor once offered this commentary on the ability of humans to catch or stop high energy momentum (this was in relation to not wearing seatbelts and using one's arms to keep the head off the dashboard - it should work well here too)... Stand back 30 feet from a brick wall. Now... run as fast as you can toward the wall, try to run through it. At the very last second throw your hands up (but don't break stride) - see if you can keep your face from smashing into the bricks. Good luck with that. Now imagine trying to catch a 150 pounds that has accelerated through 30 feet of clean air. Haha. Your arms may as well be stalks of wheat. DMT
In theory, I definitely agree with you.
I read an article in Rock and Ice about Sonnie Trotter (I think it was him. I know it was a canadian, he has a superman tattoo, I remember that). He let his climber drop but I don't remember the distance nor the conditions. He tucked and stopped the dropping climbing when he landed on his back.
A clean fall would probably not be stoppable, but many fall conditions are not full speed. the rope slows them down, or they hit something on the way, etc. I am just always amazed when someone is willing to sacrafice their own safety to help another in trouble.
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dynosore
Mar 22, 2007, 5:57 PM
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If someone is falling from 30ft, you have about
1.4 seconds before they hit the ground. A 200 lb person will hit with almost 9000 joules of energy, or 6600 ft*lbs. For comparison, a typical deer rifle generates about HALF that force at the muzzle. Ouch.
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thomasribiere
Mar 22, 2007, 8:50 PM
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Is that a troll? If yes T10+. If not...
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majid_sabet
Mar 22, 2007, 10:29 PM
Post #63 of 77
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carlkyline wrote: Say you were belaying your buddy and about 30' up (somehow) they fall. Should you put a crash pad under them(if you have one) or should you catch them or should you turn your head and pray?
Let the hands of lord protect you my son, fall in my arm, fall in my arm
At least this is how I see it, every time bunch of boulder rats are in circle having their hands up like lord is about to land in their arms.
If they do it, why not climbers do the same ?
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Mar 22, 2007, 10:29 PM)
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crimpandgo
Mar 22, 2007, 10:38 PM
Post #64 of 77
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dynosore wrote: If someone is falling from 30ft, you have about 1.4 seconds before they hit the ground. A 200 lb person will hit with almost 9000 joules of energy, or 6600 ft*lbs. For comparison, a typical deer rifle generates about HALF that force at the muzzle. Ouch.
I agreed with this previously. There are reported cases of people arresting falls . which seems even more amazing when looking at your numbers above.
These other side of the coin that hasn't been discussed it the potential of the "catcher" actually doing more damage to the falling person by trying to stop or limit the fall. since the "catcher" is pretty static and the faller is obviously moving, you could do some serious damage if you grab the falling person in the wrong location, lik in the middle of there back,etc.
Now granted the ground is Hard, but depending on conditions, the falling person may be better off hitting the ground. Say for example, a slab landing where a person could hit and roll. Anyway, just a thought on the other side of the coin
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jakedatc
Mar 22, 2007, 10:56 PM
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people who boulder know enough to get the fuck out of the way when people get too high to be an effective spotter.. after a certain point all you can do is hope they hit the pad and then push them to keep their head from going off the pad. 30 feet you're on your own bud.. just hope it's slabby so you can scrub some speed.
oh and vertical drop of 30 feet you got like 1.5 seconds before splash down going 14m/second which is 31mph (50kph)
and remember "spoons not forks"-Suble
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carlkyline
Mar 22, 2007, 11:39 PM
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I'm not leaving because im a pansie. Its because I dont have time, I can on here in Jan, and now i post, I'm always doing something else. though, I might have a post now and then.
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climbsomething
Mar 23, 2007, 12:08 AM
Post #67 of 77
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majid_sabet wrote: Let the hands of lord protect you my son, fall in my
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the_leech
Mar 23, 2007, 1:11 AM
Post #68 of 77
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Gee whiz, Beaver....
Ya think the alleged 15-year-old kid who's been climbing eight months, climbs 5.12a trad, and says things like "if your partner say falls out of their harness or the rope snaps..." and "to answer some of these what i think are dumb questions..." and "i would like to thank you for being total dicks to me..." might be a TROLL???
My work here is never done.
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majid_sabet
Mar 23, 2007, 2:55 AM
Post #69 of 77
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Just make sure you have a good belay
[URL=http://imageshack.us]
[URL=http://imageshack.us]
[URL=http://imageshack.us]
[URL=http://imageshack.us]
[URL=http://imageshack.us]
[URL=http://imageshack.us]
[URL=http://imageshack.us]
[URL=http://imageshack.us]
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Mar 23, 2007, 2:59 AM)
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brent_e
Mar 23, 2007, 3:25 AM
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carlkyline wrote: hummm wrote: Wait... you are belaying.. right? If your partner is leading, then he/she should clip into something at 30', so you catch he/she, they might fall about 20'~. If it is just TR, then you should just lock in and catch your partner.... I really don't think you should let go of the belay/rope and grab the crash pad, or pray.. (ain't going to do you any good... or your partner) I should stop reading posts on RC, it is making me dumb... if your partner say falls out of their harness or the rope snaps(even though you should check the rope before climbing) should you catch him/her.
falls out of their harness?!?! LOL Rope snaps!!???
GABE ALERT
I think maybe gabe was a little smarter than this.
good troll, though. estimated pages: 9
agitated users: 28
carlkyline looking at the havoc he created : Priceless.
there's some thing stupidity can't buy, for everything else, there's rc.com
EDIT:
majid...^^^^^^^^ that's a homeric whipper.
(This post was edited by brent_e on Mar 23, 2007, 3:27 AM)
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moose_droppings
Mar 23, 2007, 5:28 AM
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Majid,
Didn't that guy do that for a film, or a dare, for like $200 bucks.
late thought edit:
Isn't that off the diving board?
(This post was edited by moose_droppings on Mar 23, 2007, 5:30 AM)
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majid_sabet
Mar 23, 2007, 5:50 AM
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moose_droppings wrote: Majid, Didn't that guy do that for a film, or a dare, for like $200 bucks. late thought edit: Isn't that off the diving board?
I thought he said $500 or may $200 but I know it was low.
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Mar 23, 2007, 5:50 AM)
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j_ung
Mar 23, 2007, 7:05 PM
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Damn dood, that's a fall and a half right there. 
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ja1484
Mar 23, 2007, 7:21 PM
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dynosore wrote: If someone is falling from 30ft, you have about 1.4 seconds before they hit the ground. A 200 lb person will hit with almost 9000 joules of energy, or 6600 ft*lbs. For comparison, a typical deer rifle generates about HALF that force at the muzzle. Ouch.
Uh, yeah, but the force is spread over considerably more surface area with a human body than a bullet.
It's also worth noting the human body is dynamic. I mean, most young people can jump off a 10 foot roof without injuring themselves so long as they bend at the knees and use the shock absoribing qualities of their joints the way they were meant to be used.
All I'm pointing out is that the math being posted up here in regards to this is seriously incomplete. The human body is not a static mass, it is, if I must use a very bad analogy, a large bale of springs of varying tensions connected to one another around a rigid, but still plastic, framing.
All that aside, I agree that catching the person or breaking their fall is out of the question. They're definitely generating too much force for anyone but the Hulk to stop. Like I said, at best you may be able to catch the head and *slow* it's descent to rest by an appreciable margin, downgrading a skull fracture to a nasty bruise.
Once again: If you're going above 20 feet, rope up.
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