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buzyrock
Sep 26, 2002, 5:45 AM
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Popularity of RC has increased multifold in recent times...but has safety awarness too?
I recently came across a climber who has broken his left ankle in a fall; neither he nor his mates knew what to do when it happened. Most of us probably don't have basic first aid training, or we just ignore it?
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smooth-up
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Sep 26, 2002, 6:26 AM
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Safety Awareness is not what it should be . I believe you can see it in the gyms and at the crags . Hell ... it's a dangerous activity but , can be very rewarding . First Aid training should be a consideration for every climber just in case . GOLDEN RULE = It's better to know first aid and not need it than to need it and not know it . Classes are informative and interesting . Training can go alot further than just climbing with friends . RC web site I believe has done alot for safety awareness , I look for things I have questions about here as well as talk about them with other climbers . Be safe . Think about getting some training....
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maskokalover
Sep 26, 2002, 5:19 PM
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this has come up in dozens of threds in this forum..
but its true..
take a first aid course...
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cheers
~mark
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drector
Sep 26, 2002, 5:39 PM
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Can someone recommend or outline the different types of first-aid training that might be appropriate for climbing. I know of basic first-aid courses and also of first-responder training (I've only heard of it). I don't know what would be appropriate beyond the stuff that get's taught in boyscouts or if there are different types of training specific to outdoor recreation.
Dave
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climbingmusician
Sep 26, 2002, 6:01 PM
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I think it is a good idea for a climber to know at least basic first aid. i agree its better to know it and not need it.Another thing to have climbing is that if someone has a cell phone bring it with you obviously most places you go climbing you may not get service but its a good thing to have in case you or somone else gets hurt you can get help.
[ This Message was edited by: climbingmusician on 2002-09-26 11:02 ]
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basecamp_junkie
Sep 26, 2002, 6:27 PM
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I would recommend the EMT-W course or something similar to it. Basic first aid courses such as ones offered by the Red Cross are great, but leave skills needed in the wilderness lacking. EMT type courses are typically about 100 hours long. The first responder course the drector spoke of is about 60 hours long, but is designed for interfacing with emergency responders in an established emergency system. I wouldn't recomend it for use in climbing rescue situations. To really be self reliant and effectively treat and extricate an injured partner you have to be trained to work independently and creatively, which is the goal of courses such as EMT-W. As part of paramedic training I integrated high angle rescue, and plan on doing wilderness advanced life support also... that's a little overkill, but as a minimum for anyone planning on doing dangerous activities in remote settings an EMT wilderness course is completely adequate. If anyone has questions about emergency training, I might be able to answer it, or at least know of a resource for you.
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fitz
Sep 26, 2002, 8:46 PM
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Personally, I think that everyone climbing outdoors should take an advanced first aide course right away. You can usually find a good program through your local Y, hospital, or Red Cross. The committment is usually an evening a week for 4 to 8 weeks.
No, it is not total preperation, but it is much better than nothing.
Then, take a good self rescue course (preferrably a multi day thing, not a 2 hour intro at your climbing gym).
This is where you start to learn how to keep bad situations from getting worse or, better still, preventing bad stuff from happening in the first place.
Once you have a grounding in the basics, I would *strongly* recommend a Winderness First Responder course. It usually takes an intensive week, but I think it is well worth it.
Personally, I think that WFR training may be more appropriate for most climbers than a generic EMT rating. A Wilderness EMT is pretty much the ultimate, but it is a big investment of time and money.
-jjf
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assault_climber
Sep 26, 2002, 9:50 PM
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I'm a firm believer that everyone should get some sort of first aid training, even if it's just the very basics. That's why all the people that I climb with are first aid certified. DRECTOR asked what type of first aid course climbers should take. I recommend at the very least take a basic first aid course that you might get from the Red Cross. Some places you might be able to get outdoor specific first aid training. If you do, it should teach things like how to deal with snake bites and bug bites. It should also cover things like making an improvised stretcher, dealing with spinal injuries (like from a fall) and how to evacuate a person overland to a place where an emergency vehicle can get in.
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scrappydoo
Sep 26, 2002, 10:43 PM
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Definately get first aid training, and carrying a TURNED OFF cell phone isn't a bad idea either (purists have a legitimate right to flame me though).
More importantly though, I think that fewer climbers know basic rescue technical skills than first aid. I have rarely met climber folks that know how to pass knots, escape a belay, tie of injured parties, set-up z-rigs or other pulley systems, etc.
"Mountianeering: Freedom of the Hills" and one of the wilderness medical books would probably get you a long ways; especially if you practiced.
my $.02
Drew
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maskokalover
Sep 29, 2002, 6:01 AM
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Well said Fitz...
i agree...
a commitment is nessary..
it took me about 3 years to become a lifeguard for the YMCA, and another 2 years to even get a job there...
First Aid is exremely important...
Every climber should be told by his trainer that he should know and take a first aid class...
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Cheers!!!
~mark
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tanner
Oct 9, 2002, 6:48 AM
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I have red cross standard first aid Cpr C and by taking that 15 hour couse I know know how little I know.
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climbingcowboy
Oct 9, 2002, 7:10 AM
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I'm very well versed in the rescue and medical field I've got a sh-t load of certs and liscenses (worked in rescue now in hospital), and have to say that a Basic CPR or even the EMT course isnt deisgined for outdoor people like us (although anthing helps), like above mentioned the Wilderness First Responder (WFR) is a Great course for people BUT I also recommend another class to take wich is Low and High angle rescue this is stuff that youll need the most. Face it if your doing CPR out in the middle of somwhere there probably gonna die any way but say your buddy broke his leg 1000' up the wall on a lead fall knowing how to get you guys down will save both your lifes, or say your out bouldering-highballin and someone falls and is unconsious how do you keep from paralyzing them? Or say theres a couple of newbie stranded climbers at the local crag and need help getting off the route immeditly? if anyone has questions PM me and I'll point you in the right direction.
Geoff - ok heres what I've got: EMT, EMT-W, Fireman, High/Low Roped Rescue, Rescue Diver, Swift Water Rescue, Lifegard, RCP II, RCP Neonatel/Peds, ACLS.
[ This Message was edited by: climbingcowboy on 2002-10-09 00:23 ]
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tanner
Oct 9, 2002, 7:27 AM
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Where Can you get certs. like that?
Because I've often thought what if?
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climbingcowboy
Oct 9, 2002, 9:33 AM
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Check with your local city college first, the roped rescue is put on by the fire dep. through city colleges sometimes you can find the WFR class there also, EMT classes are through the college too. You should update your profile (where your from)and I'll try to find some stuff out for you. Normally Emt class is around 3 months 1-2 nights a week, the WFR is usally a straight week or two full weekends, roped rescue is usally a week of class four hour nights then two weekends one for low angle and one for high angle hands on (being the person in the basket is a trip )
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knotrocket
Oct 9, 2002, 12:03 PM
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Cowboy you're a man after my own heart...
Just being able to get a buddy with a broken ankle, tib-fib, or something similar out of the crag and to somewhere accessible by truck or ambulance would be good practice/knowledge. CPR is good for gen. know., but how many people with cardiac history do you see at your crags? Being able to get a gym rat down from a climb over his head or even though it's debatable whether or not you should, being able to get a sport rap'er (sport?) untangled from his fig. 8 and down to the ground wouldn't hurt either...
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climbingcowboy
Oct 9, 2002, 12:32 PM
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ya tangled up in his eight shirt caught in it and everything hahaha makes me laugh cause ive seen it (and done it)
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galt
Oct 9, 2002, 1:04 PM
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Although we would all love the time/money to become W-EMT that's just not going to happen. I'm a WFR (Wilderness First Responder) and I feel confident in my training to cover most minor outdoor accidents. My training was 10 days (highly intensive) at Radford University for $425. I've used my training twice in the past 5 months and I'd consider it priceless. (Traction a broken Tib./Stop someone's wrist from bleeding) If you don't have the time or funds to do WFR I'd say WFA (Wilderness First Aid) is another great alternative.
One of the first things I learned was stop a problem before you have a name for it. Translation: Practice SAFE Climbing. But it never hurts to have a wee bit of training. Hope this is worth your time.
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johntherock
Feb 1, 2003, 11:41 AM
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Hey guys, check out http://www.wildmed.com for some cools papers on first aid written by doctors! e.g. http://www.wildmed.com/wild_emerg_prevent.html is around "How to Deal with Emergencies in the Wilderness". Good reading which all helps!
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johntherock
Feb 1, 2003, 11:44 AM
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Hey guys, check out http://www.wildmed.com for some cools papers on first aid written by doctors! e.g. http://www.wildmed.com/wild_emerg_prevent.html is around "How to Deal with Emergencies in the Wilderness". Good reading which all helps!
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orangekyak
Feb 1, 2003, 2:10 PM
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I'm going to make a prejudiced and hasty response to the previous post ... Doctors don't know sh1t about wilderness response.
Wilderness medecine and response revolves around improvisation and understanding the severe dangers that develope around victims and rescuers in any wilderness accident. Doctors are not trained for this. The experts at Solo and WMT are the best sources for learning how to respond. Take a course.
All outdoor enthusiasts should get Wilderness First Aid (WFA). If you are an outdoor professional you should have Wilderness First Responder(WFR). These trainings are the standard. Doctors should get them.
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socalclimber
Feb 1, 2003, 2:51 PM
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I just recently took the WFR course. I took it for 2 reasons: 1) I run the volunteer SAR team for Joshua Tree NP, and 2) I climb. A good friend of mine here in Josh named Grant Hiskes teachs a WFR course. Grant is an amazing teacher, and has tons of medical experience. For instance, 10+ years on YOSAR, another 5+ years on Tualome SAR, Mamoth Ski Patrol, currently on JOSAR (Joshua Tree Search And Rescue), was a paramedic, emt, and trauma tech. If anybody wishes to take the course, PM me and I will let him know! Grant also just finished teaching certain sections of the EMT refresher course for the park service.
Take the course, a basic first aid course is almost useless in the great outdoors! The strongest emphasis in basic first aid is call 911 and ABC's. The WFR course is far more intense and will prepair you for all sorts of circumstances.
Great course, take it! nuff said.
Robert
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bergsteigen
Feb 9, 2003, 9:36 PM
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I think a general first aid course at your local red cross is a good place to start. If that does not satisfy your need for training, then check with your local fire station or community college for an EMT-first responder course. These are generally one to three day courses, some a little longer, and will cover the basics of first aid in a field or non hospital setting.
-berg
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spork73
Feb 9, 2003, 9:52 PM
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I got into Climbing through Scouts in witch me and most of the people i climb with are CPR and First Aid Certified i also climb with a guy that just got his EMT cert. and to coment on what orangekyak said That is not always true i have several docters/nurses in my family all have outdoor training one of my uncles is in Kuwait right now as head of all the MASH units. lots not all docters know about wilderness first aid/emergancy care
[ This Message was edited by: spork73 on 2003-02-09 13:57 ]
[ This Message was edited by: spork73 on 2003-02-09 13:57 ]
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gdonde
Feb 9, 2003, 9:57 PM
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I work in an indoor gym, and all the staff their have to be CPR and first aid trained.
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boulderinemt
Feb 13, 2003, 12:43 AM
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I would recomend taking the OEC (outdoor emergency care) course from the national ski patrol. (yes i am one of those goofy people that wears a red parka down the slopes) It has all the training that a person would ever need, however some cases require fast transport to a hospital. i am going through the EMT class now, and i wouldn't recomend it for climbers, really, unless you want to work in an urban setting. OEC is outdoor. strictly outdoor. i would also recomend carrying a complete, extensive first aid kit, almost a jump kit, that ski patrollers or emts have. talk to some of your local medics, and ski patrollers, and if you want a basic list of stuff to take, email me at skibumfromahicktown@hotmail.com and i will send a packing list of my kit. climb safe
j
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