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ergophobe
Sep 30, 2002, 4:24 AM
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Since ice routes often run with water, I would go with synthetic. That said, I also have a light down sweater to throw in the pack sometimes too and it works okay for a dry route where you're only going to put it on when you are at rest. All in all I woudl want synthetic.
Tom
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darkside
Sep 30, 2002, 4:26 AM
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For an overparka used between climbs or at belays whilst ice climbing it has got to be a better bet with synthetic. Apart from getting wet from falling snow etc, you will be putting it on over wet clothes or while sweating. Given downs tendancy to clump and lose insulating value when wet, the extra bulk/weight of synthetic makes it worthwhile for such activities.
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tim
Sep 30, 2002, 4:52 AM
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Fluffy stuff.
The patagonia das parka is nice except it's expensive. Wild Things makes a primaloft jacket that's light, warm, and cheaper.
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coconutz
Sep 30, 2002, 12:09 PM
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If you are absolutly certin that it is going to get wet then I would use synthetic. However...........if the route is running with water chances are that it is warm enough to go with out a overparka. I use down and love it. I have a Marmot Parbot membrain and have yet to get the down wet. I have belayed in really bad conditions and had snow all over me and have stayed dry. Also, it is cut big. It is actually made to go over your shell and fleece and stuff. If you are dead set on getting synthetic then Wild Things makes a great jacket and Marmot makes a nice one as well. Nothing compairs to down though.
[ This Message was edited by: coconutz on 2002-09-30 05:11 ]
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bradhill
Sep 30, 2002, 3:54 PM
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I've got a Marmot belay jacket with Primaloft and I love it. Roomy cut, hood fits over a helmet, and pretty compact. Unfortunately, this is the model from 2001. They've since started using Polarguard 3D. Not a big deal, but I really wonder - Primaloft is less expensive and a superior material for this use. I guess it doesn't have the "brand awareness" of Polarguard, and it's not as puffy-looking, so it doesn't sell as well. Lame.
My buddy has a Marmot down belay jacket that he loves and wore in some very wet conditions in Canada without trouble.
Synthetic doesn't have that great an advantage over down with the new waterproof/breathable fabrics available, it's just that the down itself and those performance fabrics are expensive. A down belay jacket will run you 3X as much as a comparably performing synthetic. It will last you longer and be lighter when dry, though.
One key thing to look for, down or synthetic - get a two-way zipper so you can unzip the jacket from the bottom to get at your harness and belay device.
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tradklime
Sep 30, 2002, 4:50 PM
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Primaloft. Almost as compressable as down. Retains loft when wet.
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punk
Sep 30, 2002, 7:26 PM
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We talking two environments here if wet (i.e. ice climbing lower elevations) I will go with the synthetics and Primaloft is the king (I own the puffball, and the DAS parka(Patagucci) …and frankly there is no better pieces out there ….maybe compatible but not better)
If in dry (i.e. snow mostly…the parka fabric can repel the small amount of water and high altitude weather very cold not allowing for a moister buildup…turn to ice before having the chance to soak you…sounds weird but true)
I will go with down parka like the icefall from FF.
So for general needs I'll say it’s the Primaloft
The pro and cons are
Down Pro - the lightest insulation and the highest loft very long life for the insulation very compressible,Low maintenance
Down Con - lost of insulation properties once dampen or wet (basically useless)…very long drying time, complex garment constriction, expensive (hand plucked, and separated etc)
Synthetics pro- retain insulation properties once wet (not comfortably…but it works), inexpensive, simple garment constriction
Synthetics con->>, short life ( the insulation collapses very fast), bulky, high maintenance
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jtcronk
Oct 1, 2002, 5:41 AM
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Registered: Mar 29, 2002
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Wild Things Belay Jacket-hands down! Primaloft with Epic shell. Can't go wrong. I've used it all over, ice climbing roadside to climbing in Alaska....no complaints yet!
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bradhill
Oct 8, 2002, 4:59 PM
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Registered: Mar 22, 2002
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Warm enough all depends on where you're going and how much you're willing to suffer.
But don't buy the Chugach or any other belay jacket without an insulated hood that fits over your helmet.
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grippedclimber
Oct 14, 2002, 2:28 AM
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Registered: Sep 24, 2002
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Wild Things belay jacket is THA PIMP shiat. Primaloft be good. The jacket be warm. I be out
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petsfed
Oct 14, 2002, 2:54 AM
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The problem with wp/b shells for down coats is the fact that the shell is not as breathable as what they put on synthetic shells so your sweat can get the down wet. I don't plan on getting down for anything but guarunteeably (not a word I know) super dry conditions because when soaked, they're like wet towels. Plus down is expensive! The new Patagucci down jackets (no hood) are $199, but then again the DAS is $259, so think what you will.
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bouldertoad
Oct 14, 2002, 3:58 AM
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Registered: May 26, 2002
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Down...no question. Just be sure to get one that has a waterproof shell (which costs some big $$$) and you will be fine. The synthetics are bulky which make them hard to pack while you are climbing and they are not nearly as warm. The Marmot membrain or the mountain hardwear conduit will be perfect.
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jbrd528
Oct 15, 2002, 4:01 AM
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Registered: Oct 4, 2002
Posts: 108
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Check out the Wild Things Belay Jacket. This jacket rules. Super warm. It has a Epic Shell on it. This material is amazing. Check it out at www.wildthingsgear.com.
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