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Nuggular
Jul 12, 2007, 7:21 PM
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I keep seeing photos of people leading with 2 ropes. Like this http://www.mountainproject.com/images/97/0/105889700_large_81e6b3.jpg
What is the purpose for this. I know on longer routes, with more than 2 people, you need to trail a rope behind for the 3rd guys. But why would you use 2 ropes with 2 different protection points on a 90 foot climb. Practice, yes, but why 2 different protection points?
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bigfatrock
Jul 12, 2007, 7:29 PM
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It reduces the fall you take when clipping. The belayer feeds slack in one rope at a time, that way if you botch a clip your second rope doesn't have have the excess slack in it, thus reducing your falling distance.
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(This post was edited by bigfatrock on Jul 12, 2007, 7:32 PM)
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reg
Jul 12, 2007, 7:33 PM
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two ropes are configured as "twins" or "doubles". twins are clipped to the same pro whereas doubles are clipped one to every other piece. this reduces rope drag on routes that don't go straight up. both provide added saftey and the ability to do full lenght rapells. search twins and doubles on this site for more.
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boymeetsrock
Jul 12, 2007, 7:34 PM
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The reason mentioned above is one I've never heard. (Though it might have some merrit to it) The real reasons people use "double" or "twin" ropes (there is a difference) are 2:
- If one rope breaks, you have a back up.
- To reduce friction on wandering climbs.
Read up friend. This is a slightly complex topic, but an easy answer to find.
-Boy
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jonqdoe
Jul 12, 2007, 7:36 PM
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It can also serve to greatly reduce rope drag if the gear isn't close to making a straight line. That's a climb at Devil's Lake that I've never been on (closed area), but maybe there's scattered gear under the roof above him?
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zealotnoob
Jul 12, 2007, 7:39 PM
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See: double ropes; twin ropes.
In reply to: It reduces the fall you take when clipping. The belayer feeds slack in one rope at a time, that way if you botch a clip your second rope doesn't have have the excess slack in it, thus reducing your falling distance.
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silascl
Jul 12, 2007, 7:43 PM
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The real question, wtf is the guy in the photo doing with his rope management?
He should be clipping one rope into pro on the left side of the chimney and the other rope into pro on the right side. If you zig zag the ropes, you may as well just use one, since you won't be minimizing drag at all.
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jakedatc
Jul 12, 2007, 8:08 PM
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haha.. yes.. that is a great example of how not to climb on doubles.
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cracklover
Jul 12, 2007, 8:09 PM
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Nuggular wrote: I keep seeing photos of people leading with 2 ropes. Like this http://www.mountainproject.com/images/97/0/105889700_large_81e6b3.jpg What is the purpose for this.
1 - Bring up two seconds at once.
2 - Allows the leader to place gear in options that would be too far out of the line with a single rope.
3 - Reduces rope drag.
4 - Allows use of shorter (or sometimes no) slings.
6 - Can reduce fall distances.
7 - Can protect second better on traverses.
8 - Can share force on more than one piece in a fall.
9 - Prevents total failure if one rope gets chopped.
10 - Can allow longer (or linking) pitches.
11 - Can allow longer rappels.
12 - Reduces fall force on the gear.
Those are just some of the reasons off the top of my head. I'm sure there are plenty more.
GO
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Nuggular
Jul 12, 2007, 8:09 PM
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Thx very much all. Question answered. I will read up on twin ropes.
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jakedatc
Jul 12, 2007, 8:12 PM
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Nuggular wrote: Thx very much all. Question answered. I will read up on twin ropes.
read up on Half ropes designated with at (1/2) on the rope label. Twins are far less common and more used for Ice (at least in the US.. i heard somewhere they are more common in europe for rock.. i unno)
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silascl
Jul 12, 2007, 8:22 PM
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Can you expand on #12 - Reduce fall force on gear?
Not sure I understand how that would work.
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cracklover
Jul 12, 2007, 8:35 PM
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silascl wrote: Can you expand on #12 - Reduce fall force on gear? Not sure I understand how that would work.
1 - In general, 1/2 ropes are less stiff as springs (different modulus) than single ropes. In other words, in a given fall, they'll stretch further, take longer to stop you, and put less force on your gear.
2 - The ropes may share the load of the fall, thus distributing the force to more than one piece.
3 - If a piece on one rope rips, and then the other rope catches the fall, that second rope may not have stretched at all yet. Thus that rope is dealing with a mass (you) travelling at a slower speed (less energy), and it has the full amount of stretch "left" with which to absorb the energy of your fall. That all means that the piece you're now falling on will feel less force.
Does that help?
GO
(This post was edited by cracklover on Jul 12, 2007, 8:37 PM)
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