|
gte921n
Aug 2, 2007, 1:24 PM
Post #1 of 12
(1098 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 6, 2006
Posts: 16
|
I was just on trango's website, and they now label the cinch (blue) as improved. Does anyone know what this is referring to?
|
|
|
|
|
snowboardercolo
Aug 2, 2007, 2:23 PM
Post #2 of 12
(1075 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 19, 2007
Posts: 87
|
Yep, it is improved smoother running and a better fit as well as much lighter than a GriGri. I bought one so my GF could use it to belay me and for TR it is fine but for leading it is a pain. If all you want to do is use it for TRing then get it otherwise spent the extra $20 and buy a GriGri.
|
|
|
|
|
maldaly
Aug 2, 2007, 2:48 PM
Post #3 of 12
(1060 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 31, 2002
Posts: 1208
|
gte921n, he got it partially right. The new Cinch does run smoother...for lowering. We accomplished this by slightly moving the pivot point of the handle and making it a bit larger.
snoboardercolo, you can make belaying the leader hassle free, secure and smooth by reading, practicing and following the instructions here: http://www.trango.com/pdfs/CinchFAQ.pdf
Any Qs, PM me.
Mal
|
|
|
|
|
robbovius
Aug 2, 2007, 2:51 PM
Post #4 of 12
(1057 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 20, 2002
Posts: 8406
|
heeeeyy Mal, so this means I should put my original Cinch on E-bay, and buy a new one, right? ;-)
to the OP: I have used mine for lead belay, and as long as you use the correct method it's easy, um, a cinch, even. ;-)
|
|
|
|
|
wilcox510
Aug 2, 2007, 2:56 PM
Post #5 of 12
(1052 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 17, 2004
Posts: 106
|
Hey Mal, I was recently told by a reputable gear shop employee that there was some scenario where it is possible for the rope to entirely come out of the cinch while in use. He didnt know the specifics, but someone else had apparently seen a video demonstrating this. What's the deal, is this an issue? I'd have to think its not, I cant believe the device would have such a huge flaw and you guys would still sell it.
|
|
|
|
|
maldaly
Aug 2, 2007, 3:48 PM
Post #6 of 12
(1007 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 31, 2002
Posts: 1208
|
We've never been able to break a Cinch or cause the rope to pull out in the field, using real weights, dynamic ropes and normal knots. However, if you tie a backup knot on the brake end of the rope, then pull the rig in an Enstron tester, the backup knot will pull into the Cinch and break it. The CE has a proposed test for this scenario with a minimum 10Kn failure. In late 2006 we strengthened the lever plate of the Cinch to meet this proposed specification.
When we replicate this on a test tower rather than on an Enstron, using an 80kG rigid weight and an F2 fall, we've never had a failure (old Cinch) if there is more than one foot of rope between the Cinch and the back-up knot. The rope slipping through the Cinch (which it's designed to do in a high-F fall) limits the force to 7-8kN depending on the rope.
When we rig an F2 fall using a haul bag filled with 80kG of sand rather than a rigid weight, we've never had a failure regardless of where the knot is.
So what are the take-home lessons?
1) Never, ever, put yourself in a position where am F2 fall is possible.
2) You can break anything in an Enstron.
3) Be careful of what you hear from reputable gear shop employees.
4) Don't use the Cinch as rope solo device.
5) Backup knots should be Fig 8s on a bight, clipped into your belay loop with a locker. That way it completely redundant; the goal of your backup knot, right? BTW, when we pull backup knots into devices (all brands and models) we often see rope failure at less than 10 kN.
Climb Safe,
Mal
(This post was edited by maldaly on Aug 2, 2007, 3:52 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
wilcox510
Aug 2, 2007, 3:59 PM
Post #7 of 12
(992 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 17, 2004
Posts: 106
|
Thanks for the info. I was pretty skeptical when he was telling me this, and was planning to ask you soon. So, if I'm going to buy one in a local shop, how can I make sure Im getting the newest improved Cinch? Do they look different or have any particular marking?
|
|
|
|
|
robbovius
Aug 2, 2007, 5:34 PM
Post #8 of 12
(947 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 20, 2002
Posts: 8406
|
Malcomb, okay, okay, I'll death-mod my grigri!!! ;-)
in all seriouesness, given #4 and #5 are adhered to, the cinch would never see a backup knot getting close anyway, since backups are more in the province or rope-soloing or Toprope self-belay.
to my mind, this renders any worry about breaking the Cinch a non-issue.
|
|
|
|
|
climb_plastic
Aug 2, 2007, 8:53 PM
Post #9 of 12
(900 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 24, 2003
Posts: 706
|
They should add instructions or warning about #5 in the manual.
Is the old cinch going to be on sale?
|
|
|
|
|
maldaly
Aug 2, 2007, 9:04 PM
Post #10 of 12
(890 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 31, 2002
Posts: 1208
|
The current model of the Cinch, with all the changes was introduced about a year ago. In janyary of thisyear, we changed the color to blue and added the CE 0123 markings on it. There was no physical change in January.
I don't want to add the backup knot caution to the printed manual but I will add it to the FAQ pages on the website. Good idea.
Climb Safe,
Mal
|
|
|
|
|
norushnomore
Aug 6, 2007, 9:12 AM
Post #11 of 12
(816 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 4, 2002
Posts: 414
|
Mal, is Ti cinch still coming or not any more?
|
|
|
|
|
maldaly
Aug 6, 2007, 2:35 PM
Post #12 of 12
(756 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 31, 2002
Posts: 1208
|
We have put the TiCinch on hold until the UIAA/CE finalizes the standard for belay devices. We were throwing money down the rabbit hole chasing a moving target.
Mal
|
|
|
|
|
|
