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gargrantuan
Aug 12, 2007, 4:44 PM
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my friend picked up a pair of the new ones (anodized orange colored) and they look awesome! like that the pinky bump-up thingy (the fang or strike attachment?) is standard on them now.
when is the release date for new bd stuff?
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anykineclimb
Aug 13, 2007, 1:09 AM
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seen em at last years festival in Ouray and a couple times in the park. They handle pretty damn nicely.
haven't heard on a release date, but I'm sure it'll be in time for the ice though.
oh and the pinky thing has two sets of threads integrated into the handle instead of just bolting around the shaft.
(This post was edited by anykineclimb on Aug 13, 2007, 1:11 AM)
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trebork2
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Aug 13, 2007, 1:43 AM
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Yes they are damn sexy. I can't wait to get my hands on them and try them out. See how they compare to the last set.
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adeptus
Aug 19, 2007, 2:37 PM
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The Viper is just a poor man's Cobra. The shape is the same, but not the weight distribution.
Last winter I saw Sean Isaac climb with a pair of the new Cobras and they rocked!
I'll get myself a pair for my trip to Patagonia next winter for sure.
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crackers
Aug 20, 2007, 3:27 PM
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adeptus wrote: The Viper is just a poor man's Cobra. The shape is the same, but not the weight distribution.
I don't think you've seen them. The shape is not the same. The new cobra's have this funky I beam kind of shape in the handle, and the second position that results feels totally different than the vipers. The geometry of the two tools is similar, but lined up next to each other, I didn't think that the geometry was exactly the same.
I haven't climbed with them, I just fondled the axes on display at OR. Furthermore, I didn't talk to anybody about them, so they might well have been some strange display thing rather than the real deal.
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the_climber
Aug 20, 2007, 5:49 PM
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I saw the ones Sean Issac was using last season... well the ones all the Canmore BD Boys and Girls were using. Those look to be the next "BD tool to get" so to speak.
This is the word of mouth I have had trickle down to me through the nameless rumor mill of the climbing comunity. Ie. I heard from someone who heard from guys who used them. The new Cobra is DA BOMB! The new Viper, well the word I kept hearing was that they are a little 'dissapointing'.
But hey, that's just what I heard... hell what do I know I climb on Grivels
(This post was edited by the_climber on Aug 20, 2007, 5:50 PM)
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paintrain
Aug 23, 2007, 3:20 PM
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I got a chance to climb on them last year in Ouray. One in each hand, matching sets in both hands. Mostly unleashed. I only climbed ice with them, nothing mixed.
I personally didn't like either the new cobras or new vipers (as opposed to me loving the old versions of both). They worked OK in Steep steep steep ice, but anything less than vert and they are hard to get a stick (they are shaped like a crescent from bottom of tool to top). They had different feels due to shaft material (this is where I actually like the new viper better). Your swing has to change a lot if you are accustomed to the old versions
I learned on old school heavy tools. I climb on 1st gen cobras and nomics now. It would take me 4-6 swings to get a good stick from these tools due to their lack of any weight. I watched one buddy climb with an old cobra in one hand, new in the other and it regularly took 3x as many swings to get the new version to stick vs one swing with the old tool.
As for professional climbers using these tools. With some of them, you could give them claw hammers and they would get up in style. You could adapt to these tools, but you will have to work to get decent penetration especially in hard ice.
Let me give a break down of what I saw in new tools:
Beautiful to look at (they are pretty). Both of them
Extremely curved. I saw very similar geometry in both tools.
They worked on really steep pecked out terrain (all of Ouray is pecked out).
Not an all around tool (IMO). It would be hard to plunge these at all and it took a tool to get the finger catches off.
Extremely light. You have to stay with them all the way through the swing many times over to get a solid stick.
That is my opinion. I tried to get a feel for them. I tried to like them, but didn't get into them after 4-6 pitches. Mostly I found them frustrating. They were still proto's so maybe they changed some of the features, but as it was, I will take my current tools over the new ones.
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tradmanclimbs
Aug 23, 2007, 3:29 PM
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Never trust an opinion about a techical tool that mentions plunging carry a straighter third tool for approaches and a crazy tool for climbing that being said a bit of weight is nice to get the sticks.
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paintrain
Aug 23, 2007, 5:19 PM
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You are right, but some climbs have approaches. Works for sport ice hauling a 3rd tool, but not as friendly for alpine climbs with approaches. Seems you should just go with a Z handle model if you want ergo friendly and no versatility.
I miss the days when I would put that tool behind my head, get it going with my tricep and forget about it till it was about to hit the ice. Light tools take so much work to get good sticks, but my knuckles are a lot happier with the new geometry
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tradmanclimbs
Aug 23, 2007, 7:00 PM
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I am even more likly to have a third tool for alpine ice. i finished 2 rts last winter with my third tool due to BDlaser pick fragility A friend of mine broke the head right off his Grivel Machine mid pitch on WI6. Third tool is a good thing
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paintrain
Aug 23, 2007, 8:07 PM
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I am knocking on wood. Never broken a pick in 15 years of ice climbing.
I have been contemplating getting a shorty 3rd since I am climbing leashless more and worry about dropping one mid pitch. It is a good idea. I don't see people carry 3rd tools as much anymore.
I usually carry a spare pick on alpine climbs with lengthy approaches. I figure I can always put in a piece of gear/clip a tool and swap a pick (not a perfect assumption I realize, but I don't climb WI6).
Breaking the head off the tool mid WI6 - whew. That makes me sweaty just thinking about it. I defer the philosophy of carrying a 3rd tool for that.
Curious. Is it really cold when you have broken the picks? Are you really strong (meaning you drive them with a lot of force and have to get them out with a lot of force), are you a big guy or was it warm and the ice was really sticky? Any thoughts on why the picks broke besides pick fragility?
A guy I ice climb with has the same feelings about 3rd tools (though I never see him carry one) and some incidents last year with friends have me thinking about carrying one for local ice/cragging. Got a recommendation for a 3rd tool?
PT
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