|
sky7high
Aug 11, 2007, 4:40 PM
Post #51 of 78
(4395 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 15, 2006
Posts: 478
|
These cams still look like they're a little bit rough, but I think we can be almost certain that metolius will polish them before they get out. They really look nice. I like the c4 style loop, it makes using cams much more confortable
|
|
|
|
|
wings
Aug 11, 2007, 4:50 PM
Post #52 of 78
(4386 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 2, 2004
Posts: 283
|
The location of the spring is quite a good idea. Wonder why no one else has does this? Do they have any numbers on how long the spring will last before it loses its pull? I'm eager to see how the springs feel.
- Seyil
|
|
|
|
|
moose_droppings
Aug 11, 2007, 4:56 PM
Post #53 of 78
(4379 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 7, 2005
Posts: 3371
|
Any reason for the 2 different (grey and blue) colored finger loops in the pic? Be nice, not a necessity, if the loops were color coded to the cam size like the slings.
|
|
|
|
|
desertdude420
Aug 11, 2007, 10:39 PM
Post #54 of 78
(4246 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 20, 2006
Posts: 294
|
I hope that the Alien design gets re-born. Just not like before, the original were produced in some guys garage!
|
|
|
|
|
vegastradguy
Aug 11, 2007, 11:00 PM
Post #55 of 78
(4235 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 28, 2002
Posts: 5919
|
wings wrote: The location of the spring is quite a good idea. Wonder why no one else has does this? Do they have any numbers on how long the spring will last before it loses its pull? I'm eager to see how the springs feel.
the spring on the stem of the cam is not a pull-spring, rather, its a sheath around the stem of the cam to help protect it over edges, but still maintain the flexibility that is needed.
also- the color coding doesnt mean anything- they're still prototype models, expect them to be clean and sweet come jan.
|
|
|
|
|
legion
Aug 11, 2007, 11:34 PM
Post #56 of 78
(4216 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 14, 2003
Posts: 86
|
Please do not put those retarded rangefinder dots on the production cams.
|
|
|
|
|
vegastradguy
Aug 12, 2007, 4:46 AM
Post #58 of 78
(4113 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 28, 2002
Posts: 5919
|
dont hold your breath, the rangefinder is part of the line and i fully expect it to be on the Master Cams...
|
|
|
|
|
skinner
Aug 12, 2007, 5:40 AM
Post #59 of 78
(4093 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 1, 2004
Posts: 1747
|
the_climber wrote: However, in areas like the great Canadian Chossies, we have very few routes with straight forward cracks, thus routes tend to wander a lot and proper slinging is the only way to reduce the certain rope drag that will catch up with you at some point on the pitch. That extra bit of sling can allow you to save a sling for higher up. When on routes that wander only slightly you are often able to save a draw for higher with extending the sling.
I have to agree with you on this one totally
|
|
|
|
|
domu888
Aug 13, 2007, 8:15 AM
Post #60 of 78
(4023 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 19, 2007
Posts: 111
|
This looks like a neat patent-avoiding design-around of the alien. At least I can see how they've combined their own technology and bypassed using an exact replica of the CCH-style trigger structure and possibly improved on it, though I guess if Metolius have showed these at a trade show then any patent protection enjoyed by CCH must have or must soon be coming to an end. Looks like CCH are in for a lot more trouble than they expected.
Having said that, it might be a few years before we see these outside of the US.
(This post was edited by domu888 on Aug 13, 2007, 8:36 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
j_ung
Aug 13, 2007, 1:28 PM
Post #61 of 78
(3978 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
domu888 wrote: This looks like a neat patent-avoiding design-around of the alien. At least I can see how they've combined their own technology and bypassed using an exact replica of the CCH-style trigger structure and possibly improved on it, though I guess if Metolius have showed these at a trade show then any patent protection enjoyed by CCH must have or must soon be coming to an end. Looks like CCH are in for a lot more trouble than they expected. Having said that, it might be a few years before we see these outside of the US.
Domu, my understanding is that CCH's patent is only for the Aliens' internal spring, not the whole unit. I could be wrong, but I believe all other aspects of the Alien are, to some extent, fair game.
EDIT: the trigger throw looks a little short to me, too.
(This post was edited by j_ung on Aug 13, 2007, 1:30 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
vector
Aug 13, 2007, 3:44 PM
Post #63 of 78
(3891 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 13, 2004
Posts: 88
|
vegastradguy wrote: domu888 wrote: Having said that, it might be a few years before we see these outside of the US. Well, Metolius doesnt CE cert their cams, so i'm not sure you can get them in Europe at all...
According to the feature list for Ultralight TCUs, they are CE certified:
http://www.metoliusclimbing.com/ultralight_tcu.htm
I was a bit worried there for a minute.
|
|
|
|
|
vegastradguy
Aug 13, 2007, 5:50 PM
Post #64 of 78
(3827 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 28, 2002
Posts: 5919
|
woops, my mistake. i could have sworn that metolius used to not certify their cams because i remember someone saying they couldnt get the cams in europe....is it CE cert or UIAA cert that is required for cams in europe?
|
|
|
|
|
the_climber
Aug 13, 2007, 5:56 PM
Post #65 of 78
(3820 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 9, 2003
Posts: 6142
|
I belive it's UIAA that is required in Euro-land, that seems to be what I remember someone saying.
|
|
|
|
|
shimanilami
Aug 13, 2007, 7:59 PM
Post #66 of 78
(3765 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 24, 2006
Posts: 2043
|
vegastradguy wrote: the spring on the stem of the cam is not a pull-spring, rather, its a sheath around the stem of the cam to help protect it over edges, but still maintain the flexibility that is needed.
So their springs are in the head, a la Ultralights?
Also, are those machined cam stops I see?
|
|
|
|
|
vegastradguy
Aug 13, 2007, 9:05 PM
Post #67 of 78
(3737 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 28, 2002
Posts: 5919
|
shimanilami wrote: vegastradguy wrote: the spring on the stem of the cam is not a pull-spring, rather, its a sheath around the stem of the cam to help protect it over edges, but still maintain the flexibility that is needed. So their springs are in the head, a la Ultralights? Also, are those machined cam stops I see?
yes, and yes.
|
|
|
|
|
domu888
Aug 14, 2007, 12:48 AM
Post #68 of 78
(3688 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 19, 2007
Posts: 111
|
the_climber wrote: I belive it's UIAA that is required in Euro-land, that seems to be what I remember someone saying.
I think you have to have both in Europe, the CE mark is a legal thing required for general EEC regulations (Not the EU: its complicated), whereas the UIAA is specific to the industry and meant to be a more International standard. If you read through both the UIAA and CE stuff they are pretty similiar, but if you don't have the CE mark then there are restrictions on where you can sell things in Europe.
As far as I am aware most manufacturers do both, as Europe is a pretty big market: something a lot of US and Canadian climbers forget sometimes.
Yes, you can even buy Aliens in Europe.
(This post was edited by domu888 on Aug 14, 2007, 1:06 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
domu888
Aug 14, 2007, 1:05 AM
Post #69 of 78
(3673 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 19, 2007
Posts: 111
|
j_ung wrote: domu888 wrote: This looks like a neat patent-avoiding design-around of the alien. At least I can see how they've combined their own technology and bypassed using an exact replica of the CCH-style trigger structure and possibly improved on it, though I guess if Metolius have showed these at a trade show then any patent protection enjoyed by CCH must have or must soon be coming to an end. Looks like CCH are in for a lot more trouble than they expected. Having said that, it might be a few years before we see these outside of the US. Domu, my understanding is that CCH's patent is only for the Aliens' internal spring, not the whole unit. I could be wrong, but I believe all other aspects of the Alien are, to some extent, fair game. EDIT: the trigger throw looks a little short to me, too.
Working in the Patent field, I can agree with you that its never the whole unit, but some specific parts that are patented. Climbing aids, as they are usually termed in patents, have been around for ages and all the so-called "patented" cams out there just have only one or two components that enjoy patent protection. Those labels you see that say "Patented" or "Patent pending" are for the benefit of rival companies, who will lose more money in a patent infringement lawsuit if the labels are there to warn them. Since the US has the "first to invent" principle, Ray Jardine would never have made so much money if the whole unit was patented.
Having said that, a recent Supreme Court ruling has made it easier to circumvent some patents if you can prove them to be obvious, so if Metolius or anybody else has a good lawyer and plenty of money then, yeah definitely, anything from Aliens, Friends, TCUs, etc is fair game after 30 years of cams. Though I would stick clear of stealing ideas from Camalots and Bigbros ... those would be difficult lawsuits.
(This post was edited by domu888 on Aug 14, 2007, 1:07 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
cracklover
Aug 14, 2007, 3:20 PM
Post #70 of 78
(3591 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
|
vegastradguy wrote: the spring on the stem of the cam is not a pull-spring, rather, its a sheath around the stem of the cam to help protect it over edges, but still maintain the flexibility that is needed.
Too bad! If they could have gotten the tension right in a central spring between the cams and the pull bar, this would have been an awesome solution. No need for internal springs. No need for external springs. No need for any springs at all in the head of the unit! Would be a very nice design improvement! Maybe they're planning on that, they just haven't fine-tuned it yet, and so rather than give you a unit to look at that wouldn't work at all, they gave you one that looked something like the final product, even though it didn't work like it?
It seems bizarre that they'd use something so heavy and bulky as a thick spring simply to protect the central cable. Or did they say definitively that the spring was purely for that purpose?
GO
|
|
|
|
|
vegastradguy
Aug 14, 2007, 5:01 PM
Post #71 of 78
(3545 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 28, 2002
Posts: 5919
|
cracklover wrote: vegastradguy wrote: the spring on the stem of the cam is not a pull-spring, rather, its a sheath around the stem of the cam to help protect it over edges, but still maintain the flexibility that is needed. Too bad! If they could have gotten the tension right in a central spring between the cams and the pull bar, this would have been an awesome solution. No need for internal springs. No need for external springs. No need for any springs at all in the head of the unit! Would be a very nice design improvement! Maybe they're planning on that, they just haven't fine-tuned it yet, and so rather than give you a unit to look at that wouldn't work at all, they gave you one that looked something like the final product, even though it didn't work like it?
unlikely, as the units are already very narrow- they're definitely narrower than aliens, i'm just not sure by how much.
In reply to: It seems bizarre that they'd use something so heavy and bulky as a thick spring simply to protect the central cable. Or did they say definitively that the spring was purely for that purpose?
thats the purpose of the spring- to protect the cable over an edge, but maintain flexibility.
|
|
|
|
|
sky7high
Aug 14, 2007, 5:17 PM
Post #72 of 78
(3537 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 15, 2006
Posts: 478
|
Narrower than aliens?
Rad!
|
|
|
|
|
mtnwarrior
Aug 15, 2007, 3:00 PM
Post #73 of 78
(3465 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 15, 2007
Posts: 9
|
What do you mean by trigger wires arent internal? They arent on Aliens either, or am I confused as to what you mean?
|
|
|
|
|
desertdude420
Sep 13, 2007, 10:31 PM
Post #74 of 78
(3216 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 20, 2006
Posts: 294
|
I believe that new generation aliens should be made by Wired Bliss!
|
|
|
|
|
homasta
Sep 29, 2007, 2:29 AM
Post #75 of 78
(3069 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 28, 2007
Posts: 13
|
the only reason they are doing this is to steal aliens ideas while everyone is still concerned with the recall problems aliens had i think this is a prime example of kicking te man while he is down just my two cents
|
|
|
|
|
|
