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howitzer
Oct 8, 2002, 1:49 PM
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Rock on Eryn! And spider, this thread started of stating "ABORTION IS WRONG" and of course it was going to get heated. The thread was not titled "I think abortion is wrong, what do you think?" So it started off heated to begin with. No one here specifically flamed YOU, we listened to what you had to say and responded to it in what I would consider an intelligent fashion, stating our opinions and any facts we had to back it up. If I wanted to flame you I would have called you a close-minded God-freak or something like that - that is a flame my friend. You certainly have a right to your opinion and stated it - Never once did I (or anyone) say that you were wrong or did not have the right to post what you were. We usually just responded to what you had posted. So don't take personal offence - I dont' take offense to the fact that you think abortion is wrong - I do take offense to the fact that your opinion has very strong implications for people and situations that have nothing to do with you. I just have a differing opinion and am not afraid to state it. So don't think you're getting flamed just because others are not afraid to point out when you post fallacy or don't seem to know what exactly you are talking about.
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spydermonkey
Oct 8, 2002, 4:15 PM
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Okay rockwomyn, what false information did I post? I asked a question? "Don't most rapes end in death?" A question, not a statement. And your right, most of the rapes that the public does hear about do end in death, and we hear about them on TV.
Once again, that tie that I have is directly related to this, whatever you may think. Don't attempt to try and tell me that it doesn't relate. It does.
It directly relates to my life, and I do think that when my wife is married that I can also relate to that to a certain degree.
I respect individual rights, I'm a teenager for heavens sake. I know all about trying to be individual.
And howitzer, I know what the thread started as. "Is Abortion Wrong?" And I answered that question in my opinion, "Yes!" Come on, pay attention. I've gratiously excepted your comments and opinions, but I haven't seen many "facts."
"So don't think you're getting flamed just because others are not afraid to point out when you post fallacy or don't seem to know what exactly you are talking about."
~howitzer
I don't think that anything I posted was a fallacy or not knowing what I was talking about. I've searched this subject, b/c it has directly affected me in my life. I'm sorry if that offends you that I do have ties to this, but thats life. Thats all I have to say for now.
spyder
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howitzer
Oct 8, 2002, 4:24 PM
Post #178 of 188
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Spyder, grow some thicker skin is the moral of what we were saying. You didn't see me post many facts? then you didn't read many of my posts. Abortion directly affects lots of people, not just you - you obviously missed that part of many posts as well (including mine). It's not like the people with opinions here have no ties to the subject! The point is people have opinions both ways, and both have rights to their opinions - what rockwoman and I were saying is that is fine, you are entitled to whatever opinion you want but you have to face the fact that others feel strongly against your opinion - that's just something you have to live with. You aren't the only one against abortion on this thread, read it and you will see that. Sheesh.
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pushfurther
Oct 8, 2002, 4:26 PM
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not to split hairs, but the thread started as.."abortion is wrong!! enter this thread at your own risk!"
jody changed the topic name to "is abortion wrong? enter this thread at your own risk!"
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calamity_chk
Oct 8, 2002, 4:44 PM
Post #180 of 188
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eh, go ahead and split them .. that's what the core of this topic is about anyway .. imho.
reason being, if i want to have an abortion, i will have one regardless of what people may think or feel about me or the subject in general.
in fact, i daresay that i would have one regardless of its legality, if i wanted one bad enough .. which is why i support the legal right to choose .. wouldnt you rather allow that desperate woman the privi of sanitary conditions?
personally, i couldnt have an abortion, i'm just not emotionally capable of it. i know this because i've faced the decision head-on .. but i fully support any woman who is.
i've said it before, and i'll say it again, abortion is not an easy out. so get off your high horse and talk with a few women who've had one.
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dondiego
Oct 8, 2002, 4:56 PM
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I have heard from Steve (wildtrail) on several occasions that there is no way that abortion will ever be reversed. Newsflash Bro, there are three Justices on the Supreme court now that want to overturn it, two are on the fence and three are pro-choice. Two of the pro-choice will more than likely be retiring dering this term and so will one of the fence-sitters. That means that a conservative president will nominate conservative justices to be confirmed by (what is predicted as being) a conservative controlled congress. All it will take is one case that makes it to the SC after thet and Roe v Wade will be overturned. There are cases waiting in the wings for this opportunity. I am not saying that I am in support of this, I am just stating the facts. In this country anything can and will change at any time.
-D D-
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rockwomyn
Oct 8, 2002, 5:32 PM
Post #182 of 188
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Spyder-give it a rest go whine somewhere else!
D.D.
Exactly why i constantly contact my state reps and senators to let them know i am opposed to more conservatves being added.
I don't think for a mintue that george w. doesn't have this all planned out....him and his extremist band of bible toters.
[ This Message was edited by: rockwomyn on 2002-10-08 10:34 ]
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dondiego
Oct 8, 2002, 6:06 PM
Post #183 of 188
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It's that attitude that gets us nowhere. Extremists work both ways. From either end, the other looks like extremists. I don't predict a repael, I predict that the power will be turned back to the state where it should have remained all along. Let the states decide whether they want abortion, that way my vote counts for a bit more. Conservative states can ban it and liberal states can support it. That is the middle ground. If you are in the minority in your state and you want an abortion, go next door to a liberal state and if you live in a state that supports abortion and you can't stand it, move to the conservative state next door. Ther is no way to ever make everyone happy.
-D D-
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compclimber
Oct 8, 2002, 6:16 PM
Post #184 of 188
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This is a opening post I wrote a few months ago in the topic "Pro life/Pro choice" it pretty much explains my feelings on the issue.
WARNING: I am about to share MY feelings on the issue. If you do not think you can handle my opinion withought feeling you have to flame me and tell me I am wrong then please do not read on.
After a few conversations this week-including one that was the basis of trying to "convert" me to a pro-life way of thinking-I have been asking myself a few questions lately.
Is it wrong for a woman to take the life of a fetus that she is carrying. If so, where is it wrong? On a moral level? A religious level?
Maybe it is just me, but, I believe that if a woman has an abortion it will not make her a "sinner" and she will go to hell for it. I don't even know if I there is a hell. If there is, there surely has to be different forms of it... right? The woman who was raped, had an abortion to avoid carrying a child that would more than likely become a disfunctional member of society surely cannot be sitting in the same hell as the person that raped her. Right?
I work in an ice arena and recently someone went through all the locker-rooms stealing the peoples things that were on the ice at the moment. It was a group of three that came in and stole these things. A dirtbag guy, a girl who is barely 18 and her son... all of 4 years old. Tell me that at 14 this girl was ready to have that baby and I'll tell you you're a moron. Can you imagine the f---ed up life this kid has lived, and is going to live for at least the next 14 years? Watching your mother and father-figure steal to supply a drug habbit. This kid doesn't deserve that kind of life... no one does.
I am so sick of these pro-life f---s who feel they have to prove their faith by telling someone they are going to hell if they have an abortion. Who needs that? What business is it of these people if the girl has an abortion or not. If there is a God, He/She is the only person that individual has to answer or "justify" themself or their actions to. I just cannot convieve how these people can fall asleap at night thinking they are "good people" "godly people" and they are going to heaven. Do they know how much hurt they have caused that single person? Do these people realize the hypocrisy in their words and actions?
I don't know, maybe half of this stems off my views of George Bush (both of them) and the republican party in general (by the way, i'm unofiliated... so don't bother me with propoganda)Why keep these kids alive now??? So they can turn 18 at some point and he can kill them as soldiers in a war he jumped into ass-backwards??? If we're going to be pro-life then lets be pro-life forever. Not just until they're of "legal age."
However, I believe every person is entitiled to their own opinion. That is what makes this a free country. I understand where some of the pro-life people are coming from I guess. I just feel they are under-informed sometimes. They just "accept" their religion and the actions and emotions it entails. They don't actually "believe" what is being fed to them the apathetic docile masses. I understand if I may have hurt you and your beliefs, however, that was not my intent. My intent was only to get people to think, to question authority, to think for themselves.
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rockwomyn
Oct 8, 2002, 7:00 PM
Post #185 of 188
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D.D.
sorry for the bad attitude, it just annoys me that people just sit around and think that our rights are secure and intact forever...things can change and change fast. I am just strong believer that a woman should be able to choose for herself. anyway enough said. I am very tolerant of people and their opinions generally. this thread is beat to s--- i am done.
~eryn
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spydermonkey
Oct 8, 2002, 7:09 PM
Post #186 of 188
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Okay.
spyder
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dondiego
Oct 8, 2002, 9:45 PM
Post #187 of 188
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Just remember Comp that none of us in the Military were drafted. We all volunteered. If we die, he isn't the guy who killed us.
Rockwomyn, my family has survived a violent rape as well and I would never have condemned her if she had chosen to have an abortion. It's a woman's body, she can do with it as she pleases. I wish father's had more rights but that will never hold up so Us men who do care will have to just live with it. I am a proponent that it should be in the hands of the states like I stated before and that might happen eventually. Then we will all argue over guns and war again. He He
-D D-
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wildtrail
Oct 8, 2002, 10:06 PM
Post #188 of 188
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I agree with Don on father's rights. However, most abortions there is no "father".
When a true father is in the works, he should have rights. Especially if he wants to raise the child. Nevertheless, in the end, the woman has final say.
Personally, if one isn't ready for a child, then one should be using a contraceptive. However, in the majority of the cases of teen pregnancy, its stupidity that gets them there. I've never been in the "heat of passion" and have been to stupid to bypass a condom. Stupid people make stupid mistakes. This, of course, is barring the rare occassions and minute percentages in which a condom leaks or birth control doesn't work (I worked with a woman that got pregnant on the pill).
Whether we are choice or life, we should make sure we raise responsible children. I don't/won't care if my children are having sex. As long as they are being responsible about it. Waiting for the right person and using birth control.
Of course, as long as it isn't at the age of 12 and if I have a daughter, I'd prefer she stay my "little girl" forever, but what can you do.
Steve
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