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bent_gate
Sep 22, 2007, 12:32 AM
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I have to say, as a climber I find that I have little interest in the upcoming “Into the Wild” movie, just as I found I had little interest in the whole “Aron Ralston cuts off arm to get unstuck in canyon” story. And so I wonder what other climber’s level of interest in this is.
As a person who believes in self-responsibility, I find it disturbing to hear other (usually ignorant of the subject) individuals speak in awe of those who behaved so irresponsibly. To me, I wonder why someone would be so fascinated by someone who behaved this irresponsibly, and yet have little interest in those who routinely do this responsibly.
In the Aron Ralston case, other canyoneers routinely climb in pairs for just such a reason, and those that go solo plan ahead and bring supplies for delays, leave notice of where they are going and when they should be back; so in the rare case they don’t return, people know where to look for them. A diligence they do for personal responsibility.
In the “Into the Wild” case, other Alaskans survive in the backcountry by training, learning skills, and going in prepared. Not to mention those that have lived off the land for thousands of years having extremely resourceful skills.
In fact, I find it almost disrespectful to the sport involved, that so many would desire to spend that much time following the stories of those who behaved irresponsibly versus those who behaved responsibly.
There is a big difference in a story of one who goes into climbing unprepared, untrained, and unskilled and gets killed; compared to someone who is a climber that has been trained, skilled and prepared, yet still has an accident from a rare event, or pushing the limits of the sport. Why someone would be more interested in the former is a puzzle to me.
Not that anyone needs to seek attention or notoriety, but: How would you feel if you were at your favorite crag, and your partner who has trained for years tries to create a new route that he has been planning when a rock dislodges and and cuts the rope, which results in a ground-fall and he is seriously injured and loses a leg. Whereas, 1 mile away, a n00b who never wanted to bother to take climbing classes decides to take off by himself up a rock face, gets stuck on a ledge, and then falls when he tries to get back down and loses a leg. Both are in the hospital and both get a story in the paper. But then the next day, more media shows up to get just the n00b’s story of how he just got inspired one day to take off to wherever he felt like, and then felt called to climb this amazing rock face where it got real desperate where he realized that he probably couldn’t get back down, but decided to try to climb out of it, but fell and sheared his leg off on a tree. And then Sean Penn shows up and wants to make a movie about it. And all you hear about is everyone at the Cocktail Party circuit talking about what an amazing story the n00b’s adventure was.
Not that you would seek attention for your partners valiant attempt and accident, but don’t you feel there is something disrespectful to climbing about this?
So back to “Into the Wild”. I am interested in what other climber’s level of interest in things like this is.
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coastal_climber
Sep 22, 2007, 12:36 AM
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bent_gate wrote: “Into the Wild”
It was a good book...
>Cam
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happiegrrrl
Sep 22, 2007, 12:47 AM
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I have a substantial appetite for mediw - reading, film, news.... And so, in order to satisfy my craving, I read this sort of stuff.
It's like rubbernecking - Can't help but to look. It's also intriguing to witness(in the case of first hand accounts) the hubris, naivete, ignorance and/or ego involved in the story-telling.
My favorite part of the Ralston story was when he wrote about, I think it was being on The Diamond. Anyway, it was either his first time clibing, or at least on a long route.....
His technique was so bad(How bad was it?) that he wore the soles of his boots.
And in the book, he referred to this fact as.....gear failure.
I kid you not.
I also have to laugh at how the hype on the "Into the Wild" film focus' on Penn's quest for authenticity. Yet, they change his mode of river travel form one of canoe to the more exciting kayak adventure.... So much for a dedication to accuracy.
But = if I hadn't read the book, I'd never have heard of that place called Slab City(it's not a crag, in case you're wondering). I have to admit that I find that quite interesting....
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bent_gate
Sep 22, 2007, 12:53 AM
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I can see the trainwreck intrigue. That was what stimulated my interest to even spend the time to learn about it.
I guess I am curious about the level of interest that leads those to feel it is an Epic story that is a must read or must see.
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el_layclimber
Sep 22, 2007, 12:59 AM
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bent_gate wrote: In the Aron Ralston case, other canyoneers routinely climb in pairs for just such a reason, and those that go solo plan ahead and bring supplies for delays, leave notice of where they are going and when they should be back; so in the rare case they don’t return, people know where to look for them. A diligence they do for personal responsibility.
On his way in, two chicks asked Ralston if he wanted to join them, and he turned them down. If you meet two ladies in the middle of nowhere and they want to share a tent with you, DO NOT SAY NO!!! If you need more proof that he is a moron, there it is.
Into the Wild sounds a bit different though, and I would indeed be interested in seeing it.
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rock_fencer
Sep 22, 2007, 1:06 AM
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I actually just read it on a plane trip home. Good read, dont think too highly of the kid but he had some serious balls and i respect him for doing what he did (minus the dying part). Ill probably see the movie when it comes out on DVD
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climbbaja
Sep 22, 2007, 2:01 AM
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I found the book fascinating. Not from a climber's perspective, but as a mental health professional.
IIRC, author Jon Krakauer, after a thorough dissection of Christopher McCandless' personality, declares that his behavior did not indicate a mental health problem.
I thought the book screamed of symptoms of bipolar disorder (formerly called manic depressive illness).
The mental health similarities to "Grizzly Man" Timothy Treadwell are fascinating.
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bent_gate
Sep 22, 2007, 2:22 AM
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I have to admit that bipolar was my first thought after reading the Wikipedia basics of what the story is about.
No matter what, disappearing from friends and family; the family saying they didn't know where he was for over two years; without an alternate explanation like he was pissed and wanted to get back at his parents by disappearing... All clearly demonstrate that his mental condition is perpetuating behavior that is out of order (dis-order) to his and everyone elses well-being.
If that's the case it would be a shame for it to be mistaken for courage, valor, or bravery. People suffer greatly from this.
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bent_gate
Sep 22, 2007, 4:23 AM
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coastal_climber wrote: bent_gate wrote: “Into the Wild” It was a good book... >Cam
I've heard that from most others as well. But what got you interested in the book? Recommendation? Previous Krakauer experience? Oprah? (just kidding). Is there a theme that was attractive, Or as Sean Penn said, he was attracted to the cover of the book that had the school bus on it. (May sound silly but at least he was being honest  ).
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macherry
Sep 22, 2007, 4:30 AM
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bent_gate wrote: coastal_climber wrote: bent_gate wrote: “Into the Wild” It was a good book... >Cam I've heard that from most others as well. But what got you interested in the book? Recommendation? Previous Krakauer experience? Oprah? (just kidding). Is there a theme that was attractive, Or as Sean Penn said, he was attracted to the cover of the book that had the school bus on it. (May sound silly but at least he was being honest ).
i first read krakauer's short story in outside, then later read the book. Very fascinating story, not like watching an accident, but trying to understand why the kid did what he did.
I found myself unsympathetic to the young man's quest. he gave away all his money and posessions, but ended up mooching off the kindness of strangers, It's amazing he even made it to alaska.
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dingus
Sep 22, 2007, 5:26 AM
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I read the book. It was well written. I have zero interest in that dumbass kid die in a movie.
DMT
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microbarn
Sep 22, 2007, 11:36 AM
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The only thing I know about the story is what you typed out here. Obviously you can take that to mean I don't really care about it.
However, from your descriptions it sounds like a general couch potato audience couldn't identify with a trained climber as much as an idiot that gets into a stupid situation. Maybe people have an opportunity to compare their situation to the character's and say "this is what i would do differently." They won't have a clue on analyzing the trained climber's situation.
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billl7
Sep 22, 2007, 1:56 PM
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bent_gate wrote: So back to “Into the Wild”. I am interested in what other climber’s level of interest in things like this is.
As someone who was a teenager and young adult who had a drive for day scrambles, multi-day backpacking, long off-trail multi-day solo trips, and (even as a middle-aged adult) had a wish for a time machine so I could be with Lewis and Clark and other such trips centuries ago - I had a very high level of interest in the story. The fact that he died 'out there' makes no difference. ... a la "Where does this drive to be out there come from? Or, where does this drive to be out of the 'mainstream' come from?"
Might watch the movie if it gets good reviews. Of course, no way can it do the book justice.
Bill L
(This post was edited by billl7 on Sep 22, 2007, 2:01 PM)
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roy_hinkley_jr
Sep 22, 2007, 3:18 PM
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Dumb kid starves himself to death. Yawn.
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coastal_climber
Sep 22, 2007, 3:21 PM
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bent_gate wrote: coastal_climber wrote: bent_gate wrote: “Into the Wild” It was a good book... >Cam I've heard that from most others as well. But what got you interested in the book? Recommendation? Previous Krakauer experience? Oprah? (just kidding). Is there a theme that was attractive, Or as Sean Penn said, he was attracted to the cover of the book that had the school bus on it. (May sound silly but at least he was being honest ).
I read "into thin air" and thought Krakauer was a good writer. Also it was next to the climbing books in chapters.
>Cam
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chugach001
Sep 22, 2007, 3:26 PM
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I was living in Alaska when his body was found. The attitude up there was; just another dumbass Outsider who came to AK and got smoked. These stories are always in the paper's up there.
Krakauer's well written book was a coming of age book using this tragedy as the medium but the end result is the same - it is easy to end up dead in AK and it happens fairly often. Krakauer had his coming of age trip to AK as did I, as did McCandless as have thousands over the years. Interesting enough.
But to read the previews and perspectives in the articles over the last month has been fascinating. Wall Street Journal, NY Times, Outside, Men's something have all run stories showing how much of a cult figure McCandless has become to people who i suspect did not have a youthful adventure but wanted to and can relate to the desire.
Why McCandless - because he is dead and his story was well told and because we can project our dreams and aspirations onto his vague journey. Hold on, this sounds like the same reason we have followed Jesus, Buddha and Mohamed - but I digress.
The coming of age tale is as old as humans and will forever be part of our inner-self and every generation will find their personification (Keroac, Thoreau, the WWII Generation, etc.). That's the story here, not Chris or personal responsibility or what have you. The whole "Chris was wonderful, Chris was a schmuck" debates miss the key point. He could have easily lived and we would have nothing to talk about but the coming of age theme would continue as strong in us, our society and our children as it has for thousands of years.
In many ways we owe a debt of gratitude to Chris and Jon for giving this age old tale another spin and keeping it alive in our dreams for the next generation.
Jeff
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mturner
Sep 22, 2007, 4:19 PM
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chugach001 wrote: I was living in Alaska when his body was found. The attitude up there was; just another dumbass Outsider who came to AK and got smoked. These stories are always in the paper's up there. Krakauer's well written book was a coming of age book using this tragedy as the medium but the end result is the same - it is easy to end up dead in AK and it happens fairly often. Krakauer had his coming of age trip to AK as did I, as did McCandless as have thousands over the years. Interesting enough. But to read the previews and perspectives in the articles over the last month has been fascinating. Wall Street Journal, NY Times, Outside, Men's something have all run stories showing how much of a cult figure McCandless has become to people who i suspect did not have a youthful adventure but wanted to and can relate to the desire. Why McCandless - because he is dead and his story was well told and because we can project our dreams and aspirations onto his vague journey. Hold on, this sounds like the same reason we have followed Jesus, Buddha and Mohamed - but I digress. The coming of age tale is as old as humans and will forever be part of our inner-self and every generation will find their personification (Keroac, Thoreau, the WWII Generation, etc.). That's the story here, not Chris or personal responsibility or what have you. The whole "Chris was wonderful, Chris was a schmuck" debates miss the key point. He could have easily lived and we would have nothing to talk about but the coming of age theme would continue as strong in us, our society and our children as it has for thousands of years. In many ways we owe a debt of gratitude to Chris and Jon for giving this age old tale another spin and keeping it alive in our dreams for the next generation. Jeff
Very well said. You simply wouldn't have the same story with a trained mountaineer...boring.
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theswissfactor
Sep 22, 2007, 4:49 PM
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I just saw Into the Wild last night. I have to say, I was pretty excited to see it, but mainly because I've been out to Slab City and I was curious to see how it was portrayed in the film.
I also thought it was great that a movie was being made out of Krakauer's book, because it's not an easy adventure/tragedy story, regardless of what others have said here. The book is more about exploring who Chris McCandless was and why he did what he did, and the movie stays very true to this. It is the story of his struggle with the hypocrisy of modern society, and the movie portrays this very powerfully, and without falling into cliche. Very impressive. With the exception of a couple scenes, I don't think it overly glamourized Chris's journey.
It's also a beautifully made film.
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wildthing14
Sep 22, 2007, 5:26 PM
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i've read Into the Wild but i was skeptical about the movie. i was not sure it would do the book justice, most outdoor adventure movies add a hollywood aspect and it gets tough to find a great one. But you say the movie was very well done, i might have to check it out...it was a good book
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kimgraves
Sep 22, 2007, 7:48 PM
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chugach001 wrote: I was living in Alaska when his body was found. The attitude up there was; just another dumbass Outsider who came to AK and got smoked. These stories are always in the paper's up there. Krakauer's well written book was a coming of age book using this tragedy as the medium but the end result is the same - it is easy to end up dead in AK and it happens fairly often. Krakauer had his coming of age trip to AK as did I, as did McCandless as have thousands over the years. Interesting enough. But to read the previews and perspectives in the articles over the last month has been fascinating. Wall Street Journal, NY Times, Outside, Men's something have all run stories showing how much of a cult figure McCandless has become to people who i suspect did not have a youthful adventure but wanted to and can relate to the desire. Why McCandless - because he is dead and his story was well told and because we can project our dreams and aspirations onto his vague journey. Hold on, this sounds like the same reason we have followed Jesus, Buddha and Mohamed - but I digress. The coming of age tale is as old as humans and will forever be part of our inner-self and every generation will find their personification (Keroac, Thoreau, the WWII Generation, etc.). That's the story here, not Chris or personal responsibility or what have you. The whole "Chris was wonderful, Chris was a schmuck" debates miss the key point. He could have easily lived and we would have nothing to talk about but the coming of age theme would continue as strong in us, our society and our children as it has for thousands of years. In many ways we owe a debt of gratitude to Chris and Jon for giving this age old tale another spin and keeping it alive in our dreams for the next generation. Jeff
Here, here!
Krakauer is a serious writer and Penn is a serious director. Of course I'm going to see it. Very interested.
Best, Kim
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dingus
Sep 22, 2007, 8:28 PM
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microbarn wrote: However, from your descriptions it sounds like a general couch potato audience couldn't identify with a trained climber as much as an idiot that gets into a stupid situation.
I'm not quite sure what that means. But Krakauer wrote a good book and presented the kid in a Quixote-like quest to discover himself. He made the kid into a somewhat likable character. THAT is what people identified with, Krakauer's characterization of him, the story. Quien sabe how much of that was real.... Krakauer has had his challenges with HIS reality vs. others?
In reply to: Maybe people have an opportunity to compare their situation to the character's and say "this is what i would do differently." They won't have a clue on analyzing the trained climber's situation.
Maybe you should read the book.
DMT
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ja1484
Sep 22, 2007, 9:20 PM
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I have enjoyed Jon Krakauer's writing. Genuine, realistic and well informed experiences from someone who's payed his dues in the outdoors.
That said, this is not a book I see translating well into a movie. I suspect it'll be your typical Hollywood literary abortion.
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wildthing14
Sep 22, 2007, 11:16 PM
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quote "ja1484"]
I have enjoyed Jon Krakauer's writing. Genuine, realistic and well informed experiences from someone who's payed his dues in the outdoors.
thats true, he's a great author. i thought Into Thin Air was his best book
(This post was edited by wildthing14 on Sep 22, 2007, 11:24 PM)
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happiegrrrl
Sep 22, 2007, 11:21 PM
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I have no problem whatsoever visualizing a translation from book to film. The book was sharply divided into scenes, the book is based almost solely on conversations/interactions people had with the guy(except for times when Krakauer imagined himself in McCandless' place, and that, I'm guessing will be portrayed as the inner dialog the McC actor has).
But how - oh dear...HOW!...will they ever fit in the scene where Krakauer describes his own Alaska epic and near tent-burning..... hahahah.
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Yesterday I saw the film "Across the Universe" which made an historical accounting/story out of the lyrics to a selection of Beatles songs. If Hollywood can pull that off(and they did - marvelously, I thought), then ANYTHING is possible.
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erockrings
Sep 23, 2007, 12:41 AM
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To be honest, I'm pretty excited to see the movie. I've read the book and was quite captivated by the story of Chris's socially reckless behavior. What I didn't like about the book was Krakauer's little interjections where he compared himself to McCandless. It seemed egotistical or possibly it was some kind of journalistic insecurity. "into thin air" left me with the same bad taste as well and I read 3 other books on the everest disaster to get some different perspective. As a result, I'm not a Krakauer fan.
Aside from the above, I think what the story boils down to is the fact that McCandless was able to give up all the comforts of modern life in the USA, including his insurance policy (money in this case) and live on the edge of chaos. If you're anything like me...my life is boring in comparison. I live in a structured world where I and only I have put constraints on things I chose to do everyday. Eat, school, home work, home work, sleep....People like McCandless are for us to admire in a way. Why do you think you climb??? Because everything else is so BORING. A temporary release from safety and structure.
There is my rant. I know, not very coherent, but i wanted to get my two cents in.
If you're like me and Krakauer's writing intrigues you but rubs you the wrong way at the same time check out John Vaillant's "The Golden Spruce" Super good book written in the same sorta style but trading in some jackassery with shower rods for a bit of a history lesson.
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