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caughtinside
Nov 16, 2007, 5:29 AM
Post #26 of 41
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angry wrote: caughtinside wrote: Oh, and if you have a bunch of extra lockers, rethink that as well. personally, I take two light ones, in addition to my belay biner. I know folks who take 4 or 6, which I personally feel is unnecessary. All the time? What for? I bring what I need, often less. It works for me but freaks out partners on multi-pitch when we have to share the rack.
Not all the time. Multipitch. I clove in on a locker, and I'll usually back it up with an 8 on a bight. Sometimes on a locker, sometimes not.
I usually won't take lockers on a single pitch where I'm going to lower off.
I do like to have one free for a pitch, I have used them before a runout or on a critical placement. Basically any time I'm going to connect myself to an anchor.
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wanderlustmd
Nov 16, 2007, 1:22 PM
Post #27 of 41
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Like it's been said, it depends on your confidence, knowledge of the route, length of the route, etc. I've carriend nothing more than 3 cams up short routes that never changed sizes and a full rack plus draws and slings for longer stuff I'd never been on.
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tomcat
Nov 16, 2007, 2:09 PM
Post #28 of 41
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A key aspect of climbing with less gear involves planning.I'd say that is more important than the perfect rack.Are you looking up the route beforehand to determine how you will deploy the gear,versus just randomly climbing and placing.
Saving the right stuff for the crux?Using Stoppers when you can instead of your small cams,particularly in the beginning or on easy ground.
Most of us carry a lot of finger sized cams.If I deploy my green Camalot,then I try to hang onto the purple one until I am almost finished the pitch,since it's the closest I have to the green.
Where you climb is a huge factor.Lot's of short pitches in the Gunks.Go to Red Rocks and they tend to be longer,you will need more slings if nothing else.Tradchick and I find cams faster on good granite crack routes,faster to place,to clean,to rack,so we take extras for those routes and cut down on other stuff.
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dingus
Nov 16, 2007, 3:44 PM
Post #29 of 41
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Yaya it depends. But you have to start somewhere.
I suggest the starter trad rack is 'one of each size cam' up to a certain point.
Sometimes you cull the 'half sizes' every other piece if you don't need them.
You hear from and see lots of folks toting all sorts of nuts up routes IN ADDITION to a full rack (or 2) of cams.
I used to always carry a full rack of nuts. Rarely is that the case anymore.
Tiny nuts are specialized pieces and when applicable to free climbing, take em. But toting the 5 or 6 tiniest nuts up trade routes that take mostly cams and suffer no tiny cracks at all is dumb, esp since they won't hold much of a fall anyway.
A partner of mine wouldn't even overlap small cams with nuts unless there was a specific need. If I took my TCUs he'd ditch the equivalent nuts. (He could do that, far better climber'n me).
No hexes, no tricams, no wdigets, no 8 pound grigris (unless hang dog conditions call for one haha), don't wear a pack, carry only enough biners to cover the placed pieces, slings and the belay.
When you look up at a pitch, rather than thinking of what you'll need, think about what you don't need.
If the pitches are 200 footers, then I'd tote more gear myself.
DMT
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ja1484
Nov 16, 2007, 4:06 PM
Post #30 of 41
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Registered: Aug 11, 2006
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waltereo wrote: ja1484 wrote: caughtinside wrote: Oh, and if you have a bunch of extra lockers, rethink that as well. personally, I take two light ones, in addition to my belay biner. I know folks who take 4 or 6, which I personally feel is unnecessary. I usually carry my belay locker, a large HMS locker to rack/use with my equallette, and two smaller screwgates for areas where I might need the security (first piece after a runout if I can't double up, anchors, etc.) I have a hard time thinking of a situation where I would need more than that. If your are building an anchor, you need at least 3 locking biners (one for each protection) + belay locker = 4 , at least
4 at MOST.
If I'm building a gear anchor, each piece typically gets its own non-locker. With three or more pieces, this is fine - the odds of catastrophic biner failure are nonexistent. I'll usually tie a bight8 in the rope and attach myself to the powerpoint with it through a locker. Another locker to Belay the second. 2 total.
If it's a bolted station, I'll put a locker on each bolt, attach myself as mentioned above, and then a locker to belay the second. 4 total.
Build your anchors with like 7 of em if you want, but that's a wee bit excessive methinks...
(This post was edited by ja1484 on Nov 16, 2007, 4:09 PM)
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vegastradguy
Nov 16, 2007, 4:38 PM
Post #31 of 41
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Registered: Aug 28, 2002
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first and foremost- 40 leads isnt that many leads, which is probably why you're not sure where to cut back on your gear- you dont really have that much time on the sharp end. (i'm actually impressed you're leading 5.9 at this point, i wasnt touching 5.9 until i had a well over a hundred leads in the bag)
second- some general advice:
in red rocks, tricams are not necessary. can you use them? sure. but they're not necessary. in over 5 years of climbing here, i've found exactly one route where a tricam was mandatory pro at a crux. (Deep Space, an obscure 5.9 sketchball climb)
either ditch the hexes, or cull them to the most useful sizes- generally i've found this to be green camalot to gold camalot equivalents.
cull your second set of cams according to each climb- but generally just try to take doubles in your bad sizes. that is, if you're solid on handjams, there's little reason to take a second hand sized piece on most routes (there's always exceptions to this). but if you're terrible on off-fingers (like 99% of climbers), taking a second piece in that size is a good idea.
i'll also second ditching excess lockers and other accessories. (folks, you only need two lockers, one for your powerpoint, one for your belay device)
finally- in Red Rocks, there's rarely a splitter crack which has a specific rack requirement. if you have a set of nuts and a set of cams to 4" and you're not climbing a 200' pitch, you should be just fine as there are generally lots of pro options. this is generally true of most climbs up to the 5.9 level- above that, racks start getting a bit more specific as the cracks begin to become more uniform....
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theirishman
Nov 16, 2007, 9:01 PM
Post #32 of 41
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lose the hexes, 2 tricams and the smaller cam sizes and you should be good, i climb on doubles for nuts, thin hands to fist cams, usually 3, and 3 tricams, thats for multipitch
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evanwish
Nov 18, 2007, 6:45 PM
Post #33 of 41
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i've got the 3 smallest hexes and the 4 larger sizes...
i love the big ones, but does anyone actually like the #1,2,3 ??
i think the small ones are way too awakward to place... you really just have to have the perfect crack..
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ja1484
Nov 18, 2007, 8:24 PM
Post #34 of 41
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evanwish wrote: i've got the 3 smallest hexes and the 4 larger sizes... i love the big ones, but does anyone actually like the #1,2,3 ?? i think the small ones are way too awakward to place... you really just have to have the perfect crack..
I have found that nuts generally work better than the small hexes in most places that would take them.
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unbreakablesoul
Nov 18, 2007, 9:31 PM
Post #35 of 41
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Well, I sat around and cut down the gear a ton. I liked a few things I read about what it feels like to climb when you are carrying that much, re-leading climbs and placing passive gear, as well as making your rack fit the climb your on.
After it was all said and done, I cut the weight by more than half. Took out all the hexes and tri-cams, took out 11 cams 00 c3 to 3 c4, switched from carrying multiple cams on one biner to 1 cam each (so I can carry less draws and more slings). So all in all now I am carrying 8 cams, a set of nuts, 8 slings with biners, 6 quickdraws, and a few lockers.
Thanks for all the help and chatting about it.
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jajen
Nov 18, 2007, 9:57 PM
Post #36 of 41
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Registered: Jul 6, 2006
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angry wrote: waltereo wrote: ja1484 wrote: caughtinside wrote: Oh, and if you have a bunch of extra lockers, rethink that as well. personally, I take two light ones, in addition to my belay biner. I know folks who take 4 or 6, which I personally feel is unnecessary. I usually carry my belay locker, a large HMS locker to rack/use with my equallette, and two smaller screwgates for areas where I might need the security (first piece after a runout if I can't double up, anchors, etc.) I have a hard time thinking of a situation where I would need more than that. If your are building an anchor, you need at least 3 locking biners (one for each protection) + belay locker = 4 , at least Dude, are you serious!!!??! You need a belay locker on each piece = 3. Then you need 2 lockers for the power point. Then you need one for your belay device + one more for your reverso. We haven't even got to each of your sling/daisy chains for you. That's 2 more. If you go over a roof while climbing it's best to have a locker to avoid the worries of backclipping, that's at least one more, should be two. The way I see it, you need a minimum of 11 lockers for every pitch you climb. Anything less is just asking for trouble.
ROTFLMAO!! Thanks for that!
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ja1484
Nov 18, 2007, 10:29 PM
Post #37 of 41
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unbreakablesoul wrote: Well, I sat around and cut down the gear a ton. I liked a few things I read about what it feels like to climb when you are carrying that much, re-leading climbs and placing passive gear, as well as making your rack fit the climb your on. After it was all said and done, I cut the weight by more than half. Took out all the hexes and tri-cams, took out 11 cams 00 c3 to 3 c4, switched from carrying multiple cams on one biner to 1 cam each (so I can carry less draws and more slings). So all in all now I am carrying 8 cams, a set of nuts, 8 slings with biners, 6 quickdraws, and a few lockers. Thanks for all the help and chatting about it.
My typical NC rack if you care:
Metolius Powercams 1 - 8 (8)
BD C4s .75 - 3 (4)
BD Stoppers 4 - 13 (10)
Pink/Red Tricam x2 (4)
trad draws (6-8)
quickdraws (2)
shoulder length slings (2)
6mm cord tied shoulder length sling (1)
extra biners (3)
lockers (2)
equallette racked on a locker
ATC-Guide racked on a locker
nut tool
totals:
26 pieces
13 connectors (draws, slings, spare biners, etc.)
4 lockers
1 equallette
1 nut tool
1 belay device
~7 racking biners
------------------
~53 items of climbing impedimentia, give or take a couple
I typically rack 2 - 3 cams per one biner, as they must almost always be extended. Tricams and nuts get their own biner.
Additional items I may bring depending on the route/circumstances:
larger tricams
BD Hexes 8 - 11
BD C4s .3 - .5
disposable rap kit (webbing + ring)
purcell prussik + twistlock 'biner
I almost never carry all of this together at once - it's just not necessary.
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jemco
Nov 19, 2007, 5:04 PM
Post #38 of 41
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Registered: Jan 17, 2005
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How did this discussion end up being about lockers? The OP asked about PROTECTION, not lockers. Clearly if you are all worried about a few carabiners you have done a nice job of only taking what pro you need up most climbs. I don't think worrying about a few lockers is the original concern.
jemco
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billcoe_
Nov 21, 2007, 8:25 PM
Post #39 of 41
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jemco wrote: How did this discussion end up being about lockers? The OP asked about PROTECTION, not lockers. Clearly if you are all worried about a few carabiners you have done a nice job of only taking what pro you need up most climbs. I don't think worrying about a few lockers is the original concern. jemco
Dudes trying to pare the rack down. Some good advise up there. I find that a single locker for the belay device is usually fine. Leave the hexes at home too unless your area eats them up, in which case dropping one of the set of cams is the way to go. You can always hike it in and leave the stuff not needed on a climb at the base.
I like to eyeball the climb and pull pieces to fit what I see. Then double check what the book says if it's anywhere near my top grade so I have that 1 key critical mandatory piece at the crux which the guidebook says you need.
If it's a multipitch, then get all the gear beta you can from friends and books. Not many things are worse than being 8-10 pitches up a route with a single rope and no easy way down, getting to the 5.9 roof pitch just as your out of shape and now dehydrated hands are turning into cramped up claws: in fact this is the very roof that both the book and your buddies say needs a .62" cam which you now learn is a green alien/blue TCU size, one of the pieces you left back in town trying to shave the rack size. You look up, eyeball the move and the fall potential and think, (after dealing with the first involuntary thought "just F*me in the ass without Vasoline, I'm soooo screwed here") best just pull it and not fall, cause you don't have the rope to get down. As an interesting side note for your mind to run on an endless slow motion loop - in a tactical move as brilliant as Napolean at Waterloo, you intentionally left your helmet back with the piece you needed as well... thus shaving more weight.
That was me last year on Epinephrine,   except the 5.9 was easier than it looked from below and I ran up it no sweat. 34 years of climbing and I still am learning and doing something dumb. (You should hear what I did this year to top last years stupidity in Vegas).
Anyhow-
Did it this year with the green cam. Left the helmet at home still.
Usually takes me a few years to learn.
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sky7high
Dec 3, 2007, 11:56 PM
Post #40 of 41
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Registered: Feb 15, 2006
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my advica (well, actually not mine but anyway...) is to learn to read the route/next pitch before you climb it, from a distance if it's necessary. Example: you wouldn't want 2 sets of cams on a finger crack, or 40 pieces in a 30 ft pitch.
that way, you'll not only know what to take, but also how to rack your gear, when to place a piece because there's a difficult section above, and when to conserve pieces you know you will need later
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TheDullEnd
Dec 8, 2007, 11:55 PM
Post #41 of 41
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Registered: Nov 16, 2006
Posts: 21
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Angry! Stop it! Bad!
It really depends on what you do. Think about what you absolutely need, and always take that; then play around with what you take. Inevitably there will be times when you'll screw yourself some, just make sure you have enough to make it.
It really helps to know the route. Nothing like racking for a multipitch and seeing- Pro to 5" and not knowing much else about the climb. Awesome.
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