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SIXFOOTER
Jan 9, 2008, 1:50 AM
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OK, being a make it yourself kinda guy. Thinking about making my own dogbones for quickdraws. I have good webbing, Blue Water 1/2" with a 2400 lb tensile. I have access to a good machine and the correct materials. Anything special I should know? Whats the rating need to be for the dogbones? What about slings and runners?
thanks
(This post was edited by SIXFOOTER on Jan 9, 2008, 1:51 AM)
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orangekyak
Jan 9, 2008, 1:56 AM
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Here's the special thing you need to know: dogbones are cheaper than funerals.
Quit your trolling. I recommend spadout.com to find good deals. I have no affiliation with the site, but I like the way it helps you find good dealios.
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gt29905
Jan 9, 2008, 2:05 AM
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dealios... heh heh
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xtremst80
Jan 9, 2008, 2:24 AM
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orangekyak wrote: Here's the special thing you need to know: dogbones are cheaper than funerals. Quit your trolling. I recommend spadout.com to find good deals. I have no affiliation with the site, but I like the way it helps you find good dealios.
I agree, stop being a cheap ass! Your life depends on them so why take the chance?
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SIXFOOTER
Jan 9, 2008, 3:16 AM
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LOL, Jeesh, HArsh room!
That sounds like a plan, mostly I just like making stuff
So whats the deal with regular webbing and Dynex?
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charley
Jan 9, 2008, 1:51 PM
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You need a bartacking machine!!
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cracklover
Jan 9, 2008, 4:15 PM
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SIXFOOTER wrote: LOL, Jeesh, HArsh room! That sounds like a plan, mostly I just like making stuff So whats the deal with regular webbing and Dynex?
Harsh? Not really. Your harshest critic so far - orangekyak - should be your closest ally. He *loves* making his own gear. I've seen some of the stuff he makes, it's pretty sweet! So if he's telling you to buy it, you should give him a listen.
GO
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robbovius
Jan 9, 2008, 5:31 PM
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SIXFOOTER wrote: OK, being a make it yourself kinda guy. Thinking about making my own dogbones for quickdraws. I have good webbing, Blue Water 1/2" with a 2400 lb tensile. I have access to a good machine and the correct materials. Anything special I should know? Whats the rating need to be for the dogbones? What about slings and runners? thanks
+1 on Orangekayaks advice ( I've climbed with the guy)
secondly, as far as making your own runners, just learn how to tie good waterknots in webbing. No sewing needed.
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sgauss
Jan 9, 2008, 5:38 PM
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SIXFOOTER wrote: So whats the deal with regular webbing and Dynex?
Regular Webbing is made with nylon. It's not as strong as Dynex, so it tends to be wider/bulkier, typically something like 11/16" - 18 mm. It has the advantage of being more dynamic, i.e. stretchier, than Dynex.
Dynex and Spectra are trade names for higher tech synthetic fibers similar to Kevlar. Its very strong, so it can be made into thinner, less bulky, and lighter runners/dogbones. Typical widths currently are 8 and 10 mm, though there are concerns with wear and tear on really thin runners. I think somebody (Mammut?) was making 6mm dynex for a while, but took it off the market.
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SIXFOOTER
Jan 9, 2008, 6:29 PM
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sgauss wrote: SIXFOOTER wrote: So whats the deal with regular webbing and Dynex? Regular Webbing is made with nylon. It's not as strong as Dynex, so it tends to be wider/bulkier, typically something like 11/16" - 18 mm. It has the advantage of being more dynamic, i.e. stretchier, than Dynex. Dynex and Spectra are trade names for higher tech synthetic fibers similar to Kevlar. Its very strong, so it can be made into thinner, less bulky, and lighter runners/dogbones. Typical widths currently are 8 and 10 mm, though there are concerns with wear and tear on really thin runners. I think somebody (Mammut?) was making 6mm dynex for a while, but took it off the market.
Thank You, exactly the kind of info I am looking for. There is a shortage of climbing supply places here in south florida since there is nothing to climb, so running over to Sports Authority won't help much. I have found a couple Gyms to go checkout, thay have equipment, just haven't had a chance to go see them yet.
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curt
Jan 10, 2008, 4:15 AM
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charley wrote: You need a bartacking machine!!
What's wrong with Superglue?
Curt
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erisspirit
Jan 10, 2008, 9:36 PM
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SIXFOOTER wrote: sgauss wrote: SIXFOOTER wrote: So whats the deal with regular webbing and Dynex? Regular Webbing is made with nylon. It's not as strong as Dynex, so it tends to be wider/bulkier, typically something like 11/16" - 18 mm. It has the advantage of being more dynamic, i.e. stretchier, than Dynex. Dynex and Spectra are trade names for higher tech synthetic fibers similar to Kevlar. Its very strong, so it can be made into thinner, less bulky, and lighter runners/dogbones. Typical widths currently are 8 and 10 mm, though there are concerns with wear and tear on really thin runners. I think somebody (Mammut?) was making 6mm dynex for a while, but took it off the market. Thank You, exactly the kind of info I am looking for. There is a shortage of climbing supply places here in south florida since there is nothing to climb, so running over to Sports Authority won't help much. I have found a couple Gyms to go checkout, thay have equipment, just haven't had a chance to go see them yet.
There are plenty of good places online you can order from. BackCountry.com usually has good prices on gear.
There are a lot of threads on this site with links to online stores with good prices. Gyms tend to be a bit pricey (but not always).
I understand the do it yourself mentality... (I knit, crochet, quilt, sew, can my own jam, have a garden etc) but its not really worth the risk when for a fairly affordable price you can get gear that you know is reliable.
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amikros
Jan 10, 2008, 10:25 PM
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I'm sorry to agree, but without previous (engineering) experience, making products that are intended to support you through possibly huge falls is just asking for a problem. You should really be buying your gear from a company whose existence is based on its products abiltiy to keep you alive.
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axelvanettinger
Jan 10, 2008, 10:43 PM
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I kinda get his do it yourself gear way of thinking!
The more money you save on gear, the more money you can spend on your funeral! When you can have a funeral and aren't splattered all over the place
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skinnyclimber
Jan 10, 2008, 10:58 PM
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SIXFOOTER wrote: OK, being a make it yourself kinda guy. Thinking about making my own dogbones for quickdraws. I have good webbing, Blue Water 1/2" with a 2400 lb tensile. I have access to a good machine and the correct materials. Anything special I should know? Whats the rating need to be for the dogbones? What about slings and runners? thanks
Ok I guess this is a re-itteration of what was said before.
You can:
Tie water knots (this is the old school way to do it). Knotted webbing will *generally* lose about 1/4 to 1/3 of it's strength, so keep this in mind. Your water knots should be inspected often. You can use a rubber band to keep the rope-end caribiner in place to make it a lot like a modern quickdraw.
Get a bar tack machine and bar tack the runners into loops just like sewn runners or dogbones. There is no point doing this if you are trying to save money. I don't know what a bar tack machine costs, but probably about 50 to 100 times what a dogbone costs, or more.
Personally I wouldn't waste my time, I would just buy pre-made quickdraws from an online dealer. Or buy dogbones online, they are cheapish. I would suggest "climbaxe.com" and buy their draws, not the madrock draws. I think they are 9.95 a piece.
The only time I use a tied runner is on my trad rack where I have exactly one in case I need to untie it to rappel, retreat, thread, slap my climbing partner with, etc...
(if the nice guy at climbaxe is reading this please feel free to reward me for my shameless plug)
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gunkiemike
Jan 10, 2008, 11:34 PM
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charley wrote: You need a bartacking machine!!
Not necessarily. Mammut used to sell a dogbone with 24 rows of stitching (basically the whole length of the 10 cm 'bone) and no bartacks. It was rated at 22 kN. All that stitching made it REALLY stiff.
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chopperjohn
Jan 10, 2008, 11:36 PM
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If It's flat in Florida why do you need climbing gear? If you are commuting to go climb just stop off at the local gear shop where you are climbing. I see nothing wrong with making your own shit, seems it would cost more to get the gear to make your gear. I just tie my own slings anyway. get a couple hunit feet o webbing and cut n tie.
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aja175
Jan 11, 2008, 12:45 AM
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Making your own gear can be ok, IF you have the engineering background to know the forces applied during a fall, AND have the equipment to test what you make.
Most people don't.
If you REALLY want to trust your life to your sewing ability and that roll of thread from walmart bought back in the early 90's to repair a hole in your favorite boxers, by all means, do so.
Personally, I'll stick with the professionals...
Remember you are trusting your life to this gear.
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SIXFOOTER
Jan 11, 2008, 2:52 AM
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Well, I am not an engineer but not an idiot either. Looking at these things its basically a length of webbing doubled into a loop and stitched together in the middle with 6 or 7 Bar Stitches across the webbing, ok, no problem.
Being florida there are Many outfits here that do marine canvas and even lifting straps (Big Ass Dogbones)
The plan is to duplicate what I have seen, useing matching nylon thread (new Stock) on a machine built for the purpose. I can get them done pretty cheap since it can't take more than 5 minutes to do the stitching.
There is also an outfot here that can do the destructive testing on a test batch to determine break strength.
So, If I do this I am confident that they will be very close to the break strength of the webbing itself, in this case 5 tons or 44.something KN. But, thats me guessing, there is likely some derating factor but thats what the test would determine.
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aja175
Jan 11, 2008, 3:26 AM
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Well, as long as you feel comfortable with your results, then go for it I guess. Make sure you have them tested first tho. There are lots of different forces and stress points at work there.
How much are you looking at saving, and what's the potential risk?
What do you make in a year? $30k? $50k? $100k? How much are you going to save by making your own draws? $100? Do the savings outweigh the potential for exposure and risk? Only you can make that call, I'm sure I speak for most people on this site when I say I hope you can live with your decision.
If you are set on making your own, be sure you do your homework first. Maybe talk to sterlingjim on here. He is an engineer for sterling ropes. He's always been great for answering technical questions.
Good luck, and be safe.
SIXFOOTER wrote: Well, I am not an engineer but not an idiot either. Looking at these things its basically a length of webbing doubled into a loop and stitched together in the middle with 6 or 7 Bar Stitches across the webbing, ok, no problem. Being florida there are Many outfits here that do marine canvas and even lifting straps (Big Ass Dogbones) The plan is to duplicate what I have seen, useing matching nylon thread (new Stock) on a machine built for the purpose. I can get them done pretty cheap since it can't take more than 5 minutes to do the stitching. There is also an outfot here that can do the destructive testing on a test batch to determine break strength. So, If I do this I am confident that they will be very close to the break strength of the webbing itself, in this case 5 tons or 44.something KN. But, thats me guessing, there is likely some derating factor but thats what the test would determine. |
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SIXFOOTER
Jan 11, 2008, 3:35 AM
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Thanks. The savings has nothing to do with it, I can get 10 commercially made ones for $35. This is mostly a head exercise and I really do like making stuff.
It sounds like most guys wouldn't think twice about useing a runner or dogbone made with a waterknot, so I don't see why stitching one would be a problem.
But, like I said, its mostly an exercise.
Thanks for the advise and help. I am learning a lot on here, I keep having to go look up terms, but I am getting it.
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miavzero
Jan 11, 2008, 4:26 AM
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skinny said: In reply to: Personally I wouldn't waste my time, I would just buy pre-made quickdraws from an online dealer. Or buy dogbones online, they are cheapish. I would suggest "climbaxe.com" and buy their draws, not the madrock draws.
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jgloporto
Jan 11, 2008, 3:37 PM
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SIXFOOTER wrote: OK, being a make it yourself kinda guy. Thinking about making my own dogbones for quickdraws. I have good webbing, Blue Water 1/2" with a 2400 lb tensile. I have access to a good machine and the correct materials. Anything special I should know? Whats the rating need to be for the dogbones? What about slings and runners? thanks
It's your funeral.
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orangekyak
Jan 12, 2008, 6:06 AM
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SIXFOOTER wrote: Well, I am not an engineer but not an idiot either. Looking at these things its basically a length of webbing doubled into a loop and stitched together in the middle with 6 or 7 Bar Stitches across the webbing, ok, no problem. Being florida there are Many outfits here that do marine canvas and even lifting straps (Big Ass Dogbones) The plan is to duplicate what I have seen, useing matching nylon thread (new Stock) on a machine built for the purpose. I can get them done pretty cheap since it can't take more than 5 minutes to do the stitching. There is also an outfot here that can do the destructive testing on a test batch to determine break strength. So, If I do this I am confident that they will be very close to the break strength of the webbing itself, in this case 5 tons or 44.something KN. But, thats me guessing, there is likely some derating factor but thats what the test would determine.
I'm changing my mind. Why the hell not? Make 'em, test 'em, have a ball. Learn some stuff then share it with us. I still think it's a basic survival skill to know when to try out your homemade sleeping bag and when not to try out your homemade screamers-er, I mean-dogbones.
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