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Grahamelot
Jan 23, 2008, 5:43 AM
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I have been doing a lot of climbing. Usually, I climb 4 to 5 days a week, for about 2-5 hours at a time. I basically live at the gym during the cold season. In 5 months time, I have gone from climbing a 5.7 top rope to topping out difficult boulder problems (up to v6 consistently). I have developed a lot of technique both by reading books (Rock Climbing: Mastering Basic Skills and Rock Climbing: Training for Peak Performance, both very good) and through practice/mimicry of experienced climbers.
The issue I have is this: I cannot climb anything other than boulder problems.
While this may sound a little silly (it sounds the same way to me, hence my asking), it is really bothering me. I get so incredibly pumped climbing even top ropes, much less leading things. Anything after about 20 feet starts to get very tiring to me. The climbers around my skill level (those that I play add-on with and have legendary matches of stupid feats) all climb top rope and sport, and I feel very left out. Often, I will climb harder on boulder problems than they do, but they are leading routes I can't even get up. I have literally climbed every bouldering problem in my gym except one 1000 ranked, which is slowly getting climbed, yet those beginner top ropes are laughing at me from their high peaks. Needless to say, I am not a happy camper.
I know I shouldn't be comparing my climbing to others, but this is seriously a concern to me. If I am climbing things lower to the ground at a higher level than them, shouldn't I be able to finaggle my way up a lame top rope?!
I have come to two possible conclusions. One, is that I do not have the endurance necessary to send anything longer than 20 feet due to excessive bouldering (I really pretty much ONLY do bouldering). The only problem with this is that I specifically train traverses for endurance. This leads me to possibility number 2: I am afraid of heights.
This is I think the more logical reason. If a person becomes nervous of their height, they will not concentrate on technique as much and resort to pulling their way up the wall via arms. Perhaps this is why my seemingly vast (at least near the ground) power reserves are depleted so quickly on my way up the route. But then again, I have never really had a fear of heights to my knowledge.
So, what could be the issue here?! What can I do to reduce this issue and send routes that I KNOW in my heart I can do, and even lead?! I have been attempting to start out small on some top ropes and acclimate myself to it once again. Maybe enough 5.10's will do me some good, anyway.
Any training/motivation/anything suggestions for this issue will help a lot.
Thanks,
Graham
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miavzero
Jan 23, 2008, 5:50 AM
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I'm no expert, but if you want to become a better route climber you must climb routes. Apparently your bouldering talents are overshadowed by some underlying issues that could include anxiety, technical, or tactical short comings.
(This post was edited by miavzero on Jan 23, 2008, 5:51 AM)
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angry
Jan 23, 2008, 6:10 AM
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You could of course stop bouldering and start climbing. Just an idea.
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dellochef
Jan 23, 2008, 7:58 AM
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Looks like you are pretty new to the sport. I got a lot of friends and i also have to admit that in a way i have the same problem to. The main reasons to me for your failure are:
- Overgripping due to stress etc.
- Bad technique due to fear
- Lack of endurance training
- Bad using of rest porsitions. There's one in every
route!
Why don't you concentrate just on endurance training for at least one month an see what comes out. Leave the boulders away, get your rope out. I personally have made the experiemnce that first a bit of bouldering and then endurance in one sesssion don't get along as i get to exhausted from the bouldering to do a real hard edurance training.
Climb routes, do 4x4's, do hangboard, do 30 min sessions, get a turn-till-burn. Try not to poison your muscles with lactic acid, but get them used to it.
Your shure will get much better!
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Muad_Dib
Jan 23, 2008, 8:41 AM
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Not sure if this applies to you but the following is something I have noticed. when you only boulder you're not really climbing. you are constantly interrupted either by falling or the top of the "wall." when you look at the big picture you're not really onsighting that many moves. basically you're not learning how to flow. you know the main riffs to a few songs but forgot about the transitions, bridges and pacing. you're probably climbing problems that are mainly tracking oriented and relatively straightforward, i.e its obvious where to put your hands and feet. Then when you get on a route, with relatively easier moves but more options, you are completely clueless on how to analyze and move through a set of holds the most efficient way possible. once again you never learned to flow. totally not a diss on you but I always laugh when my friends who boulder way harder then me can't onsight 5.11 sport.
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MonkeyInTraining
Jan 23, 2008, 4:29 PM
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I had the same problem to a lesser degree, and at a lower level of climbing. I started to boulder because I had done it as a kid. I had always felt wary of heights. I would tense up when I got over 10 feet off the ground and found that although I could do v2 boulder problems my top roping was at 5.8-5.9 and even then I would be totally spent by the top of a 40 foot wall.
What I did to overcome this was to TR and force myself to find the best rest spot and then just hang out there as long as I could. Eventually I started to get an energy return while up above 20 or so feet. It took me a few climbs but the transition from burning energy while standing still to being comfortable was fairly quick. As soon as I became able to gain a little energy on a rest I could do a few 5.10b's I had looked at the first try. That was a fun day 
It helped me move up to v3 boulders finding a way to relax, I mean really RELAX, up on a few big holds. I think this might be the fastest way to get over the minor fear of heights you are talking about. Its minor because you are up there trying but it is still enough to waist energy. You can beat this dude its not that big a deal, a real fear of high places and you wouldn't even be attempting TR. As others said, you just need to be up high until your OK with it.
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fluxus
Jan 23, 2008, 6:03 PM
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Grahamelot wrote: I have come to two possible conclusions. One, is that I do not have the endurance necessary to send anything longer than 20 feet due to excessive bouldering (I really pretty much ONLY do bouldering). The only problem with this is that I specifically train traverses for endurance. This leads me to possibility number 2: I am afraid of heights. This is I think the more logical reason. If a person becomes nervous of their height, they will not concentrate on technique as much and resort to pulling their way up the wall via arms. Perhaps this is why my seemingly vast (at least near the ground) power reserves are depleted so quickly on my way up the route. But then again, I have never really had a fear of heights to my knowledge.
As you describe it you have only engaged in those forms of climbing that rely most heavily on anaerobic energy production.
When climbing at lower intensities you forearm muscles will rely on the aerobic energy system, which you have not trained at all. So you are like any other dedicated boulderer, you have an extreme difference between the anaerobic and aerobic capabilities of your forearms.
If doing routes, or developing endurance is an important goal to you then you need to do a high volume of low intensity climbing. Developing endurance has been discussed often here in the forum, there is even a very long discussion of endurance and bouldering. Do a search and see what you find.
If you were afraid of heights or falling you would know it because it would define your experience of being on routes, you would be distracted by the possibility of falling, or of how high you are at any given time.
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shimanilami
Jan 23, 2008, 6:32 PM
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angry wrote: You could of course stop bouldering and start climbing.
I don't know why that was so funny, but it was.
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Grahamelot
Jan 23, 2008, 8:31 PM
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Well, I set my own problems now that are supposed to be as convoluted as possible. You're right in that pretty much everything I climbed was straightforward. That's why I started setting my own stuff. The only problem with THAT is that I already know exactly how to do the problem after it's set. I went and climbed outdoors a bit and then went up to Philly and climbed there. They had some great new stuff that really hit the spot. I actually had to use my brain and really think. Marked feet are a godsend. The thing with my home gym is that the wall is natural featured...It comes complete with texture, natural slopers, pinches, ledges for feet, etc. It really simulates being outdoors quite well.
Love the name btw, Dune is/was my favorite series.
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coach_kyle
Jan 23, 2008, 9:05 PM
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You could stand on your feet for hours at a time, but even on the biggest jugs, you can only hang from your hands for a few minutes. Think about what this implies about route climbing.
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joek
Jan 23, 2008, 9:16 PM
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Does it mean I should be climbing upside down?
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a.frosch
Jan 23, 2008, 9:50 PM
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Not exactly answering your question, but...climbing five days a week up to five hours a day is a LOT of climbing, especially indoors where overuse injuries like tendonitis or pulley tears are more common. Don't be afraid to rest if your body tells you you need it. Just a thought.
Or perhaps I'm wrong and you're one of those lucky, gifted people who can climb nonstop and never get injured or need to rest.
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tjfox87
Feb 7, 2008, 6:26 PM
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Hey man here's my $.02. I was and still kind of am in the same boat that you are. What I started to do though was go to the gym, and do a quick traverse, probably for a good 50feet, and then tie into a rope. Basically I had to re-learn how to climb top rope, I went from a 5.10 climber to a 5.7 in a matter of 2 months. So what I'm doing now is I climb up, and I tell myself I either make the move or I fall, and well I hate falling. I hit the top, and get lowered down, and then climb it again. Doing laps will build up your endurance, and to me that sounds like what you need. If you can only make it 20feet up then well, get lowered and climb up again. To get better at top rope you have to top rope. I hope this works for you, it did for me, I'm climbing 5.8's now, and it feels great to be improving. I'm also 6'3" and 265lbs, so I have a lot of weight to muscle up the wall, and my gym walls are 65feet tall, so it takes a lot. If you have any questions PM me, and I'll get back to you, again this was only my $.02
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bmwman91
Feb 15, 2008, 9:14 PM
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I feel you on this one. Only recently have I been making a proper effort to correct this.
A month or so ago, I was a far more confident boulderer than climber. It was sorta funny, because a good friend of mine was the exact opposite. I took him out to my bouldering spot and he commented on how he had never bouldered so high before (maybe 12') and it seemed to psych him out a little.
Well, I was the exact opposite. I have no qualms about falling 10' onto a pad, but being up high on a rope got at me. In my mind I would just tell myself that it was stupid and that I may as well be 2' high. I could USUALLY complete a route, but I suppose there was always that nagging fear of falling / not being in control. If I was going to fall, it was going to be of my own accord, dammit!
Well, I have since been getting over the mental block, which has been the biggest hinderance. Forcing one's self to make a move you are terrified of missing and falling on a nice rope helps there. Just doing it also helps immensely.
Furthermore, really, REALLY focusing on the route and setting a definite goal makes things go easier. You may not be able to toss aside all falling-fears initially, but you can certainly distract yourself with goals. Focus on the route and plan out your moves. Learn to rest when afforded the chance, even if you don't think you need it as it is a valuable skill to hone.
Mostly though, get on the ropes. Rope climb until you cannot any more, then boulder as best you can. This has worked well thus far for me. Certainly, only time and experience will help any psychological weaknesses go away, but you need practice to build endurance. I definitely want more myself.
Good thread BTW, I have a few new tips to go out and use when I boulder after work today. I'll do mu best to practice resting between moves and stay on the boulders as long as possible!
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joswald
Feb 24, 2008, 9:09 PM
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train anaerobic endurance
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irregularpanda
Feb 24, 2008, 9:15 PM
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shimanilami wrote: angry wrote: You could of course stop bouldering and start climbing. I don't know why that was so funny, but it was.
It was funny because it's true. Just like what everybody else is saying here, it's true, but simple. The only thing I have to add to all this is that bouldering dude could also train for falls.....
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Grahamelot
Feb 25, 2008, 3:17 AM
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Well, a couple of weeks (months?) later now.
I am glad to say that not only have I improved my endurance, just last night I have LED my first 5.11. It was the answer I was dreading: "Just climb!", but there is no substitute for just climbing. No amount of traverses or lifting weights will build endurance for roped routes as fast as climbing roped routes.
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dilbar
Feb 25, 2008, 3:40 AM
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I boulder 5's and at best onsight an 11b. i've slowly gotten better at rope climbing and am getting rid of my fear of heights. just keep on practicing!
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yakiman
Feb 25, 2008, 3:58 AM
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Your bouldering experience can translate into climbing through cruxes on routes , but it sounds like your getting gassed just getting to the crux. Some routes that are 5.11 may have one or two 5.11 cruxes with 5.10 climbing the rest of the way. Other 5.11's may be sustained at that grade most of the way. Keep this in mind and easy does it. It has been difficult for me to have max. power, technique, quiet mind, and endurance all at the same time on a route. Usually one or two of the components are missing. But that is what keeps me coming back for more. I have had climbs where everything clicked and 5.11 felt like 5.8. But such is life. You go along for awhile just cruisin', things are groovin' and then you lose you job, your dog gets too close to a porcupine, or someone steals your rack. What are you gonna do? Quit? Some people do.
Every spring when I start to get out on real rock I have killer grip strength (pinches, crimps, slopers) but my endurance sucks. This is a direct result of how I train (indoors on my woodie, pulling hard but not getting lots of milelage). By May/June my endurance is good, my crack technique is dialed, I have dropped 5-10 lbs. body weight, and I am starting to complete projects from last fall. By July/August I am working new projects and my endurance is extreme, lost atother 2-5 lbs., and my grip strength is less cause I really love crack climbing. Around Sept./Oct. I start seeking wide stuff, easy stuff, anything a little different just to mix it up.
All I know man is that it is February and I have already been climbing outside. The Sleeper has awoken.
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Theburningbubbler
Apr 21, 2008, 5:39 AM
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well, congrats on bouldering hard as hell...( I know its hard in my gym...im currently on v6-7 at my gym in nj where gravity brawl is usually held. but anyways...yea everyone said it...just get off boulder and start training to lead...what i did was i first started on toprope and lapped something easy until my forearms felt blasted...and i just pushed it a little farther...shortly after i got on lead...but what id do is not just take my rope and clip but i would try touching the clip first to see if it was really within my reach...then id clip...adds to the whole endurance thing to hold on a little longer...it really works! just cant be scared of falling...but um if falling is your thing...
find someone you trust and that is and i cant stress enough...experienced..and..
TRAD!! make him lead and you clean..by the time you get back to the gym after a 3 pitch climb...40ish ft seems like a joke and you will prob have the confidence to lead off...haha
most importantly (to me atleast) try reading the climb from the ground first...and utilize your feet as much as you can...always find ways to put the weight on your feet...remember its your feet and legs that really do the work next to your arms climbing...pay attention to detail
i.e. "can i knee bar" "if i drop knee while my foot is placed here, will it slip or not...is drop kneeing even a good idea in this spot or..shall i flag?" lol stuff like that
but hey...just keep climbing...even after all this mumbo jumbo i just wrote the basic most fundamental thing is...climb...climb...and climb again...and its not a job you know, its a lifestyle ;-)
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dlintz
Apr 21, 2008, 6:06 AM
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Theburningbubbler wrote: well, congrats on bouldering hard as hell...( I know its hard in my gym...im currently on v6-7 at my gym in nj where gravity brawl is usually held. but anyways...yea everyone said it...just get off boulder and start training to lead...what i did was i first started on toprope and lapped something easy until my forearms felt blasted...and i just pushed it a little farther...shortly after i got on lead...but what id do is not just take my rope and clip but i would try touching the clip first to see if it was really within my reach...then id clip...adds to the whole endurance thing to hold on a little longer...it really works! just cant be scared of falling...but um if falling is your thing... find someone you trust and that is and i cant stress enough...experienced..and.. TRAD!! make him lead and you clean..by the time you get back to the gym after a 3 pitch climb...40ish ft seems like a joke and you will prob have the confidence to lead off...haha most importantly (to me atleast) try reading the climb from the ground first...and utilize your feet as much as you can...always find ways to put the weight on your feet...remember its your feet and legs that really do the work next to your arms climbing...pay attention to detail i.e. "can i knee bar" "if i drop knee while my foot is placed here, will it slip or not...is drop kneeing even a good idea in this spot or..shall i flag?" lol stuff like that but hey...just keep climbing...even after all this mumbo jumbo i just wrote the basic most fundamental thing is...climb...climb...and climb again...and its not a job you know, its a lifestyle ;-)
Sweet Jeebus man! Lay off the ellipses! Your post reads like a therapy session.
d.
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Theburningbubbler
Apr 21, 2008, 6:45 AM
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haaa...i felt...in the moment...wordd
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dlintz
Apr 22, 2008, 4:27 AM
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Theburningbubbler wrote: haaa...i felt...in the moment...wordd
You're killin' me smalls.
d.
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