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fjclimbsrocks
Aug 28, 2008, 8:38 PM
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Have you people seen page 21 of Rock and Ice??? Steph's tick marks on Concepcion made me dry heave. Why doesn't Steph just bring green tape to Moab. Why doesn't she just paint "put left foot here, put .5 cam here, rest here" all over the rock? Her accomplishments are inspiring, but her style is PATHETIC. Shame on Steph and shame on prAna for not realizing the issues with this advertisement.
I wrote prAna the following letter to the woman listed on prAna's web page as being in charge of PR, and I encourage all of you to do the same.
Monica,
I'm a huge fan of your products, but I'm extremely disappointed with your advertising, and deeply disturbed by one of your Climbing Team members, Steph Davis. On page 21 of Rock and Ice Magazine, there is a prAna advertisement which shows Steph climbing the route "Conception" in Moab, Utah. The disappointment that I felt when I saw the ad was indescribable. Steph smeared climbing chalk all over the rock in an effort to highlight the best handholds, footholds, and gear placements. The bright white chalk marks stick out like graffiti on the pristine, red desert sandstone. The debate within the climbing community about the utility, style, and ethics of purposely marking the rock with thick lines of chalk (usually referred to as tick marks) is heated, but the consensus is clear when it comes to removing the marks. It is absolutely deplorable to leave tick marks behind without cleaning them off with a brush or sponge. This is even more crucial on red desert sandstone where rain is unlikely. The tick marks are visible from significant distances, and lessen the Moab experience for other climbers and anybody else visiting the area.
This is not the first time that the impact of Steph's egregious use of tick marks has been noticed. Steph's solo of "Pervertical" was also highly debated within the community due to the chalky mess she left behind (the article about Steph on page 34 of Rock and Ice briefly mentions the fallout). To be fair, the picture doesn't tell the whole story, and it is possible that Steph cleaned the rock after the climb and the photo. But I am skeptical. And even if she did clean the route after she climbed it, shame on prAna for even publishing a photograph which showed Steph (of all people) degrading the rock in such a way. This type of advertising is not what I would have expected from a company which seems to place such an emphasis on partnerships and involvement with "green" organizations, including the Access Fund. The biggest shame of all is that without the tick marks, the ad would have been very inspiring.
Jared
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notapplicable
Aug 28, 2008, 8:49 PM
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Seems to be habitual with that one. To each their own as long as they clean up after themselves but I would say the chances are atleast fair that she did not do so.
I really dig the freesolo's with jump descents though, sounds like some good fun.
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Rafajaman
Aug 28, 2008, 8:50 PM
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Wow, I guess the next time a free solo a 6p 10c I'll make sure to clip the tag line on so I can rap the entire route with a brush and srub each pitch clean.
Dude, chill. I'm sure she cleaned the sandstone.
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fjclimbsrocks
Aug 28, 2008, 8:58 PM
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I'm basing my judgment on her Pervertical climb on this thread, where you will see that I'm not alone in being disappointed by Steph's chalk use.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...mh=25;guest=43573042
Also, when you are working your climbs, do you put two thick lines around each gear placement you plan on making? I usually don't get fired up about this kind of thing, but check out the ad. It's pretty outrageous.
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camhead
Aug 28, 2008, 9:00 PM
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good rant.
I also recall ranting a year ago or so after her hubbie Dean Potter freed "Hong Kong Fooey" at the creek, with a similar amount of tick marks. I do not climb at that level at all, but agree that tick marks in the desert are lame. Even lamer is not cleaning them up after your ascent.
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areyoumydude
Aug 28, 2008, 9:01 PM
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So what you're saying is you don't like tick marks. Well you are welcome to your opinion, but many top climbers that use them would disagree with you. Climbers always want to talk shit about other climbers whos jock straps (or in this case panties) they couldn't fill. You can talk all the shit you want after you send Conception sans tick marks. Untill then STFU noob.
Peace out
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fjclimbsrocks
Aug 28, 2008, 9:04 PM
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areyoumydude wrote: So what you're saying is you don't like tick marks. Well you are welcome to your opinion, but many top climbers that use them would disagree with you. Climbers always want to talk shit about other climbers whos jock straps (or in this case panties) they couldn't fill. You can talk all the shit you want after you send Conception sans tick marks. Untill then STFU noob. Peace out
I don't think that my inability to climb concepcion detracts at all from my right to be pissed off when people leave tick marks on red sandstone.
Edited for grammar.
(This post was edited by fjclimbsrocks on Aug 28, 2008, 9:06 PM)
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notapplicable
Aug 28, 2008, 9:11 PM
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areyoumydude wrote: So what you're saying is you don't like tick marks. Well you are welcome to your opinion, but many top climbers that use them would disagree with you. Climbers always want to talk shit about other climbers whos jock straps (or in this case panties) they couldn't fill. You can talk all the shit you want after you send Conception sans tick marks. Untill then STFU noob. Peace out
*Lights torch and grabs pitch fork*
Ready the burnin stake boys, we got a tick marker here...!!
(This post was edited by notapplicable on Aug 28, 2008, 9:12 PM)
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areyoumydude
Aug 28, 2008, 9:12 PM
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fjclimbsrocks wrote: areyoumydude wrote: So what you're saying is you don't like tick marks. Well you are welcome to your opinion, but many top climbers that use them would disagree with you. Climbers always want to talk shit about other climbers whos jock straps (or in this case panties) they couldn't fill. You can talk all the shit you want after you send Conception sans tick marks. Untill then STFU noob. Peace out I don't think that my inability to climb concepcion detracts at all from my right to be pissed off when people leave tick marks on red sandstone. Edited for grammar.
Well maybe you should fine out if she wiped them off before you start trash talking.
BTW I have been out to Day Canyon and saw no signs of tick marks on the route. I don't know if she cleaned them off or it was from a rain storm. So now you can get your panties out of a bunch. Mystery solved.
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fjclimbsrocks
Aug 28, 2008, 9:19 PM
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areyoumydude wrote: fjclimbsrocks wrote: areyoumydude wrote: So what you're saying is you don't like tick marks. Well you are welcome to your opinion, but many top climbers that use them would disagree with you. Climbers always want to talk shit about other climbers whos jock straps (or in this case panties) they couldn't fill. You can talk all the shit you want after you send Conception sans tick marks. Untill then STFU noob. Peace out I don't think that my inability to climb concepcion detracts at all from my right to be pissed off when people leave tick marks on red sandstone. Edited for grammar. Well maybe you should fine out if she wiped them off before you start trash talking. BTW I have been out to Day Canyon and saw no signs of tick marks on the route. I don't know if she cleaned them off or it was from a rain storm. So now you can get your panties out of a bunch. Mystery solved.
Got her phone number to call and find out?  It's good to hear that the marks are gone, but I remain highly skeptical that she cleaned them. I'm curious to see if prAna writes back and if they offer any info on cleanup.
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pendereki
Aug 28, 2008, 9:24 PM
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areyoumydude wrote: So what you're saying is you don't like tick marks. Peace out
I believe that what is being said is more along the lines of 'tick marks are graffiti'. Not an issue of like or dislike, but definition.
From wikipedia "graffiti (singular: graffito; the plural is used as a mass noun) is the name for images or lettering scratched, scrawled, painted or marked in any manner on property. Graffiti is often regarded by others as unsightly damage or unwanted vandalism."
CM
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sungam
Aug 28, 2008, 9:35 PM
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fjclimbsrocks wrote: areyoumydude wrote: So what you're saying is you don't like tick marks. Well you are welcome to your opinion, but many top climbers that use them would disagree with you. Climbers always want to talk shit about other climbers whos jock straps (or in this case panties) they couldn't fill. You can talk all the shit you want after you send Conception sans tick marks. Untill then STFU noob. Peace out I don't think that my inability to climb concepcion detracts at all from my right to be pissed off when people leave tick marks on red sandstone. Edited for grammar.
now, ticking a crucial hold where it's hard to remember the exact spot on the flake or whatever, that's understandable, as long as you wash it off. Ticking whole routes and not washing isn't cool at all- maybe understandable from a gym gumbie who hasn't given it much thought, but an adult full time climber should know better.
Anyone know if she cleaned up, btw?
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canterbury
Aug 28, 2008, 9:36 PM
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haven't seen the ad but found a pic of Stehp on Conception here.
edited:spelling
(This post was edited by canterbury on Aug 28, 2008, 9:37 PM)
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ryanb
Aug 28, 2008, 9:36 PM
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Really dude?
They sell flimsy yoga pants made with cheap labor who knows where, pumping who knows what chemicals into local waterways ... and then turn around and claim to be eco-friendly because they power their mall stores with wind energy... and you're writing letters about some chalk on a rock?
Its a bit unsightly sure but if you're gonna get worked up about something try climbers trampling vegetation and fragile soils, climbing on rock art, shitting wherever they please, pissing off land owners the list goes on...tick marks rank below bolts and slightly above the annoying jangle of hexes in terms of actual impact.
Steph is a strong and inspiring climber. She's far from perfect but who isn't.
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areyoumydude
Aug 28, 2008, 9:37 PM
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fjclimbsrocks wrote: areyoumydude wrote: fjclimbsrocks wrote: areyoumydude wrote: So what you're saying is you don't like tick marks. Well you are welcome to your opinion, but many top climbers that use them would disagree with you. Climbers always want to talk shit about other climbers whos jock straps (or in this case panties) they couldn't fill. You can talk all the shit you want after you send Conception sans tick marks. Untill then STFU noob. Peace out I don't think that my inability to climb concepcion detracts at all from my right to be pissed off when people leave tick marks on red sandstone. Edited for grammar. Well maybe you should fine out if she wiped them off before you start trash talking. BTW I have been out to Day Canyon and saw no signs of tick marks on the route. I don't know if she cleaned them off or it was from a rain storm. So now you can get your panties out of a bunch. Mystery solved. Got her phone number to call and find out? It's good to hear that the marks are gone, but I remain highly skeptical that she cleaned them. I'm curious to see if prAna writes back and if they offer any info on cleanup.
Come on bro , there are way more important things to get pissed about. Are Steph's tick marks really affecting your life? Do you climb out here much? If you did you could ask her yourself. Instead you want to hide behind your computer and talk shit. What's the point. Stop buying crappy ass over priced Prana gear if you don't like it.
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jcrew
Aug 28, 2008, 9:39 PM
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she did it in the best style she could...... tick marks or no i wouldn't be able to do it. she did it in redpoint style.
of course, onsight, ground up would be a harder accomplishment...maybe some of her detractors could go send the rig in this style and demonstrate the state of the art.
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fjclimbsrocks
Aug 28, 2008, 9:48 PM
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areyoumydude wrote: fjclimbsrocks wrote: areyoumydude wrote: fjclimbsrocks wrote: areyoumydude wrote: So what you're saying is you don't like tick marks. Well you are welcome to your opinion, but many top climbers that use them would disagree with you. Climbers always want to talk shit about other climbers whos jock straps (or in this case panties) they couldn't fill. You can talk all the shit you want after you send Conception sans tick marks. Untill then STFU noob. Peace out I don't think that my inability to climb concepcion detracts at all from my right to be pissed off when people leave tick marks on red sandstone. Edited for grammar. Well maybe you should fine out if she wiped them off before you start trash talking. BTW I have been out to Day Canyon and saw no signs of tick marks on the route. I don't know if she cleaned them off or it was from a rain storm. So now you can get your panties out of a bunch. Mystery solved. Got her phone number to call and find out? It's good to hear that the marks are gone, but I remain highly skeptical that she cleaned them. I'm curious to see if prAna writes back and if they offer any info on cleanup. Come on bro , there are way more important things to get pissed about. Are Steph's tick marks really affecting your life? Do you climb out here much? If you did you could ask her yourself. Instead you want to hide behind your computer and talk shit. What's the point. Stop buying crappy ass over priced Prana gear if you don't like it.
We're going to have to agree to disagree. All I can say is that I had a pretty bad reaction to the ad. I'd be genuinely happy to hear it if it turns out that she did clean the route.
(This post was edited by fjclimbsrocks on Aug 28, 2008, 9:52 PM)
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areyoumydude
Aug 28, 2008, 9:55 PM
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Sungam, I am not a big fan of tick marks either. I will occasionally use them bouldering and then wipe them off. Whether or not Steph washed them off is mute because they are no longer there. Chalk will wash off unless the route is getting done all the time.
What is worse? tick marks or huge chalked up holds. I don't hear anybody complaining about all the chalk caked up on Incredible Hand Crack or Coyne Crack. I'd be willing to bet there is more chalk on either of those routes than on Conception.
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shimanilami
Aug 28, 2008, 9:56 PM
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No doubt. They should have photoshopped that shit out of the picture and given her bigger cans while they were at it.
I'll never get on either - i.e. her or the route - so the reality of the situation is completely moot to me.
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climbsomething
Aug 28, 2008, 10:01 PM
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I've never met Steph, probably never will, and really have no stances to share on tick marks and Steph (well, I don't have a stance on Steph, and my thoughts on tick marks don't matter here). But that's not really the point.
The climbing community is small. Couldn't you find a way to contact her directly with your concerns instead of taking the internetz blast route like so many others?
edit: clarification
(This post was edited by climbsomething on Aug 28, 2008, 10:08 PM)
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happiegrrrl
Aug 28, 2008, 10:30 PM
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Why not email her directly? Her addy is steph@highinfatuation.com
Pretty easy to find, on her blog at http://www.highinfatuation.com/blog
I think someone emailed her about the last blow-up and received a direct response. Maybe you will too.
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mtnkid85
Aug 28, 2008, 10:50 PM
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I think the idea of this thread is being blown out of proporting... like everything on RC.com
I too saw the ad your refering too and laughed out loud at it. I agree Prana used a stupid picture for the ad, I would think they could have picked one a little less "arguable".
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sgreer
Aug 28, 2008, 10:58 PM
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In reply to: Come on bro , there are way more important things to get pissed about. Are Steph's tick marks really affecting your life? Do you climb out here much? If you did you could ask her yourself. Instead you want to hide behind your computer and talk shit. What's the point. Stop buying crappy ass over priced Prana gear if you don't like it.
Agreed...to each his own and who gives a shit.
(This post was edited by sgreer on Aug 28, 2008, 11:07 PM)
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sungam
Aug 28, 2008, 11:00 PM
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areyoumydude wrote: Sungam, I am not a big fan of tick marks either. I will occasionally use them bouldering and then wipe them off. Whether or not Steph washed them off is mute because they are no longer there. Chalk will wash off unless the route is getting done all the time. What is worse? tick marks or huge chalked up holds. I don't hear anybody complaining about all the chalk caked up on Incredible Hand Crack or Coyne Crack. I'd be willing to bet there is more chalk on either of those routes than on Conception.
There's certainly worse things about, though. But those can stay in the soap-box.
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fjclimbsrocks
Aug 29, 2008, 12:00 AM
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happiegrrrl wrote: Why not email her directly? Her addy is steph@highinfatuation.com Pretty easy to find, on her blog at http://www.highinfatuation.com/blog I think someone emailed her about the last blow-up and received a direct response. Maybe you will too.
Emailing her is tempting, I suppose, if only to find out if she cleaned the route and if she continues to clean her ticks. I've actually met her and her accomplishments are inspiring but I happen to disagree with a lot of the things she has to say.
The attitude she had about "the man" in Yosemite irked me quite a bit. Both she and Dean talk a lot about freedom, and sometimes I think they don't realize that if we all did what we wanted, the world wouldn't necessarily be any better...and to be honest, I think it would be worse. I get that people have different opinions on that, and tick marks, and everything else, which is was a major contributing factor in my decision to post a rant. I would like to know more about Steph's cleanup efforts, but I also think that there isn't anything wrong with a level-headed debate about the ethics of our sport. Steph happens to be a point of focus here, but if she or her sponsors cared that much, would they have printed another ad with her and tick marks after the last debacle?
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