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irregularpanda
Oct 28, 2008, 9:40 PM
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I've been thinking of building an adjustable crack machine for training purposes. Well, training and I need a place to dry my laundry, store my collection of bloody doll heads, and all the booty that people leave me instructions to find on this website.
I have an idea for a design, but I'd like to ask the anonymous-idea-machine-masquerading-as-a-website what some good designs have been.
I'm working with 2*12 boards, about 20' long. Aside from that, share with me, interwebs. Give me your best designs, and please make fun of each others ideas as much as possible, we all know it's really the only thing we have in common. Well, maybe climbing but that's a bit of a stretch.
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petsfed
Oct 28, 2008, 9:48 PM
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The standard is to use 3 2x12s (or 2x8s, ifyou don't jam that deep) connected at regular intervals with threaded bar stock. As you rotate the bar stock, the middle 2x12 gets shifted in one direction or another, thus adjusting the width of the crack. How you support the beast is up to you, but extra tall saw horses seemed to work pretty well.
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chossmonkey
Oct 28, 2008, 9:48 PM
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what angle are you putting this behemoth?
If it is vertical you won't be able to hang much laundry.
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irregularpanda
Oct 28, 2008, 10:02 PM
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chossmonkey wrote: what angle are you putting this behemoth? If it is vertical you won't be able to hang much laundry.
Adjustable, I'm more concerned about the bloody doll heads dangling from the crack on display for my suburban neighborhood.
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irregularpanda
Oct 28, 2008, 10:06 PM
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petsfed wrote: The standard is to use 3 2x12s (or 2x8s, ifyou don't jam that deep) connected at regular intervals with threaded bar stock. As you rotate the bar stock, the middle 2x12 gets shifted in one direction or another, thus adjusting the width of the crack. How you support the beast is up to you, but extra tall saw horses seemed to work pretty well.
On the middle beam, do you just buy some sort of threading to embed in the holes? That's the only way this seems to make sense to me, as the outer two beams are fixed to each other.
Oh yeah, I should be insulting people. You sir, um, smell like ham.
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mr8615
Oct 28, 2008, 10:12 PM
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Put a nut and washer on both sides of the middle board, tighten, it can't move.
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shimanilami
Oct 28, 2008, 10:28 PM
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If you've got the materials and the space, then the 20' 2x12 idea seems like as good a concept as any.
I didn't have the space or motivation for this, and to be honest, it seemed like a lot of work to climb the same basic crack (except for the width) over and over. (If you're going to build in the flexibility to lean left/right/steep/not-so-steep, then I take it back). Also, my feet don't need the work-out so much - just my fingers. So one night I drank too much beer and - fed up with Sonnie Trotter nabbing the FA of Cobra Crack ahead of me - pulled out my skill saw and some scrap wood, and cut and hammered together a crack hangboard. It's about 3' tall with shims to create 5 different sized cracks, held together with 3" nails. It's got a couple of eye-screws to allow connecting it to the rafters in my garage, and sits right next to my fingerboard. Total cost = zero dollars. (I'll post a photo when I get home.)
The verdict is that it's sweet. I can't hang from it entirely, but it's at a decent height so I can stand and give it just enough weight to get a good burn. And all the sizes are right there next to one another, ready to go without any adjustments. It's improved my fingerlocks, ring-locks, rattley fingers, and tight hands, which was the whole point. It may not be a substitute for your crack machine, but it might make a nice compliment to it, if nothing else.
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acorneau
Oct 28, 2008, 10:28 PM
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irregularpanda wrote: I've been thinking of building an adjustable crack machine for training purposes. ... Aside from that, share with me, interwebs. Give me your best designs, and please make fun of each others ideas as much as possible, we all know it's really the only thing we have in common. Well, maybe climbing but that's a bit of a stretch.
You might get some good ideas from this thread:
http://www.routesetter.com/...pic-299/?recent=2478
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chossmonkey
Oct 28, 2008, 10:55 PM
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That is a silly article for UC to run.
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petsfed
Oct 28, 2008, 11:58 PM
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chossmonkey wrote: That is a silly article for UC to run.
Well, if you don't just lieback every bolted crack you find, you need to be prepared. They make it sound like all crack climbing is a process of pain tolerance and masochism. The truth is only most of crack climbing is like that.
Second, they give shitty advice. You want that wood to be as smooth as possible. Sand or texture paint will leave you bereft of skin, but not really any stronger. And using only a single bar, no matter where you put it, will cause you to pry the crack into a flare after even a little bit of use. Better to double the number of bars and alternate how deep in the crack they are. If you can find bar stock or bolts of the same thread, you could put t-nuts on one of the boards to simplify placement.
You'll get the most good out of a roof crack (unlike a bouldering wall, where 45 degrees provides the best training), so plan for that.
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Bats
Oct 29, 2008, 12:05 AM
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Check out OKIETERRY photos...
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elvislegs
Oct 29, 2008, 12:15 AM
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petsfed wrote: You'll get the most good out of a roof crack (unlike a bouldering wall, where 45 degrees provides the best training), so plan for that.
i agree with you on everything but this point, on which i half agree with you.
it really depends on the sizes you're trying to perfect. a roof machine would be great for hands and up, or maybe solid fingers, but training off fingers sizes (thumb stacks, ringlocks etc.) on a roof seems like an awesome way to spend a ton of time on your ass.
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mr8615
Oct 29, 2008, 12:30 AM
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elvislegs wrote: snip... training off fingers sizes (thumb stacks, ringlocks etc.) on a roof seems like an awesome way to spend a ton of time on your ass.
Classic, my thoughts exactly.
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petsfed
Oct 29, 2008, 12:40 AM
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elvislegs wrote: petsfed wrote: You'll get the most good out of a roof crack (unlike a bouldering wall, where 45 degrees provides the best training), so plan for that. i agree with you on everything but this point, on which i half agree with you. it really depends on the sizes you're trying to perfect. a roof machine would be great for hands and up, or maybe solid fingers, but training off fingers sizes (thumb stacks, ringlocks etc.) on a roof seems like an awesome way to spend a ton of time on your ass.
Actually, my belief is based on the fact that you don't really gain anything by forcing yourself into small moves in a crack (except perhaps mad endurance on your thumb). Most people's sheds and basements are too short to build a crack machine that is tall enough to really be useful. Two jams and you're done? Even if you always start seated, you still get max 5 moves. Why bother? A roof crack, on the other hand, doesn't require as high a ceiling, and you can get six or eight moves out of 20', then go thumbs together and turn around.
The hardest part of crack climbing is learning how to place and weight certain jams (wide ring locks still kick my ass constantly, for instance). But once you have that licked, it becomes a lot more about about body positioning and movement, and my crack climbing in general became a lot better after I'd spent a lot of time on roofs.
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elvislegs
Oct 29, 2008, 4:54 AM
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i see what you are saying. you're right. most people don't have the space. but some people do.
for what it's worth, the crack machine i hope to build soon will slot into the highest part of my peaked garage roof. it will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 18 feet, dead vertical, dead smooth.
my purpose in building it is to train the hardest size(s) for me which is .75 camalot or so. basically the last twenty feet of way rambo, or the bottom of coyne crack, and everything in the vicinity. i plan on doing this by running laps on this size until i hate myself for building the damn thing. if i were training other sizes i might build something steeper. but i have the room and i already know how to hand jam. i think it will be perfect, but i guess we'll see.
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mushroomsamba
Oct 29, 2008, 1:32 PM
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irregularpanda wrote: chossmonkey wrote: what angle are you putting this behemoth? If it is vertical you won't be able to hang much laundry. Adjustable, I'm more concerned about the bloody doll heads dangling from the crack on display for my suburban neighborhood.
nice signature!
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lonequail
Oct 29, 2008, 2:28 PM
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I have and use two crack machines; one up to fist size and one for OW. They are used primarily to learn and improve technique rather than to train for strength, and my comments are predicated on that principal. My recommendations:
1) Use pairs of threaded rods rather than single rods at each point. Not only are the boards more stable, but the crack can be flared.
2) Cover the inside with textureized paint. You can get paint grit for steps at a hardware store. If the inside is smooth you’ll have to over jam and it will hurt – better to jam lightly for better technique.
3) A long crack is beneficial – long enough so that you won’t want to fall off at the top. You can set up a self belay with a section of old rope, counterweight, and ascender or other rope grabbing cam.
4) Mount the crack vertically so that you can actually practice the off sizes rather than cranking pull-ups on good hand jams.
5) Slightly round the outside edges so they are not sharp and to reduce splinters. This also makes it less painful. You can also use a rasp to carve features and make it more interesting and realistic
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irregularpanda
Oct 30, 2008, 5:04 AM
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shimanilami wrote: If you've got the materials and the space, then the 20' 2x12 idea seems like as good a concept as any. I didn't have the space or motivation for this, and to be honest, it seemed like a lot of work to climb the same basic crack (except for the width) over and over. (If you're going to build in the flexibility to lean left/right/steep/not-so-steep, then I take it back). Also, my feet don't need the work-out so much - just my fingers. So one night I drank too much beer and - fed up with Sonnie Trotter nabbing the FA of Cobra Crack ahead of me - pulled out my skill saw and some scrap wood, and cut and hammered together a crack hangboard. It's about 3' tall with shims to create 5 different sized cracks, held together with 3" nails. It's got a couple of eye-screws to allow connecting it to the rafters in my garage, and sits right next to my fingerboard. Total cost = zero dollars. (I'll post a photo when I get home.) The verdict is that it's sweet. I can't hang from it entirely, but it's at a decent height so I can stand and give it just enough weight to get a good burn. And all the sizes are right there next to one another, ready to go without any adjustments. It's improved my fingerlocks, ring-locks, rattley fingers, and tight hands, which was the whole point. It may not be a substitute for your crack machine, but it might make a nice compliment to it, if nothing else.
Brilliant, I rikey. Please post pics eventually.
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irregularpanda
Oct 30, 2008, 5:17 AM
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petsfed wrote: The standard is to use 3 2x12s (or 2x8s, ifyou don't jam that deep) connected at regular intervals with threaded bar stock. As you rotate the bar stock, the middle 2x12 gets shifted in one direction or another, thus adjusting the width of the crack. How you support the beast is up to you, but extra tall saw horses seemed to work pretty well.
So, i like the idea, I was never actually planning on building it with just one threaded bar, but with parallel pars anyway.... It's simply more intelligent that way.
My problem with your idea is why you would use three 2x12 beams in the first place. I'm fairly certain I can accomplish the same goal with just two beams. My goal is to have a simple, yet sturdy crack machine that is easily adjustable. It sounds like with the middle beam being the adjustable unit, it might be slightly more easy to adjust, but I fail to see why I can't do the same thing with just two beams.
Good thoughts on vertical vs overhanging vs roof crack ideas. I like them, but not as much as pancakes or beanies or pictures of sonnie trotter. I also like the gym crack that has 5 different size cracks that someone posted from routesetters.jerkoff.net.obgyn.com. Good things.
You guys keep talking about how to mount the beast, which angle to do that at, etc, etc. That means nothing to me, it's very easy for me to adjust my crack machine within minutes, so that's not really an issue. What is an issue is intelligent design. So here's mine.
6 pieces of threaded bar, preferably with eye-bolts in one end if I can find it.
2 x (2 x 12 x 20)
Washers, bolts, and wingnuts. heh, wingnut.
Assembly:
Parralel holes for the threaded bar (of course)
on one beam (lets call it the left beam) there will be washers and nuts on both the inside and outside of the crack. On the right beam there will be washers and wingnuts on both the outside and inside of the crack. I would prefer to not have wingnuts inside the crack but simply a nut, but this will make adjusting the size of my crack a lot faster.
boom, done, finito.
Ideas, thoughts, insults, criticism, or perhaps the furry death?
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shimanilami
Oct 30, 2008, 6:21 AM
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I said I'd post some pictures of my crack hangboard. Some notes:
=> It's heavy. I could have kept adding sizes, but it started to get hard to handle.
=> I skewed the boards so that one side sticks out further for each crack. This provides a bit of variability. You could get really creative with flares, etc. just by shimming.
=> Due to the way I hung it, it swings. But it doesn't seem to really hurt matters. If anything, it takes a little stress off the wrists.
=> I had to add more nails (see third photo). You'd be surprised how much force you can generate with a good jam. I actually pulled the 'perfect hands' crack apart, nails and all, by jamming. I didn't bother reconstructing that size because it's just too easy.
=> The bare wood is great. Just enough friction. And it absorbs sweat. No chalk required.
(This post was edited by shimanilami on Oct 30, 2008, 6:22 AM)
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petsfed
Oct 30, 2008, 3:32 PM
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irregularpanda wrote: My problem with your idea is why you would use three 2x12 beams in the first place. I'm fairly certain I can accomplish the same goal with just two beams. My goal is to have a simple, yet sturdy crack machine that is easily adjustable. It sounds like with the middle beam being the adjustable unit, it might be slightly more easy to adjust, but I fail to see why I can't do the same thing with just two beams. Assembly: Parralel holes for the threaded bar (of course) on one beam (lets call it the left beam) there will be washers and nuts on both the inside and outside of the crack. On the right beam there will be washers and wingnuts on both the outside and inside of the crack. I would prefer to not have wingnuts inside the crack but simply a nut, but this will make adjusting the size of my crack a lot faster. boom, done, finito. Ideas, thoughts, insults, criticism, or perhaps the furry death?
I like three beams for the same reason I like two lines of bolts, offset from each other (that is, about every 4-5 feet, 3 inches or so in from one side, you'll have a line of bolts, but then you have another line of bolts 3 inches in from the other side) so jam induced flaring is a non-issue. It whould be easier to mount stably with 3 boards, since two are in a fixed position, rather than just one (so you don't have to make the mounting as bombproof and lever resistant) However, a 2-board crack machine should work just fine.
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irregularpanda
Oct 30, 2008, 6:11 PM
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solid, I like it.
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