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jamesellis
Nov 5, 2008, 10:09 PM
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Lately I've been getting into some slightly harder trad climbs, pushing into the 5.11's and I've noticed that often on seams or hard-to-protect dihedrals, it's impossible to get a multi-directional piece in at the start. There won't be a good spot for a cam, and nut placements are far enough apart that opposing them isn't really an option. So what do you do when this is the case? I got on a route last weekend that was all passive pro without any opportunities for opposition for the first 25 or 30 feet until I could get a cam in, and even if I wanted to oppose nuts there wasn't a decent stance to do so. Any suggestions or words of wisdom?
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wormly81
Nov 5, 2008, 10:11 PM
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To quote the great Tyler Durden...
"You determine your own level of involvement."
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summerprophet
Nov 5, 2008, 10:12 PM
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You are trad climbing right?
Rule 1
Don't fall.
Rule 2
Set what you can, when you can.
Rule 3.
If Rule 2 is not an option, see Rule 1
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spikeddem
Nov 5, 2008, 10:14 PM
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Having your belayer stand underneath the first piece as best as possible is one way to avoid problems.
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moditup
Nov 5, 2008, 10:16 PM
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I've never climbed anything remotely that hard, so I can only speculate here, but if I'm run out before my first piece and especially scared that it might come out or the results if it would come out, I'd just throw in two or three pieces right there. The start of Double Cross in Jtree is a good example. Everyone builds a little rats nest of cams and nuts there because your first piece is already at 30 feet or so.
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vegastradguy
Nov 5, 2008, 10:29 PM
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set the nut, sling it as long as you can safely (account for ledges, etc) and go.
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hafilax
Nov 5, 2008, 10:34 PM
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Hopefully the belayer is in a position such that in a fall the rope won't pull out on the gear. Pieces that might hold some outward force can be slung shorter and ones that definitely won't take an outward force should be slung long. A marginal micro cam that wouldn't hold much downward can make a good anti zipper but if every piece has to hold a fall then this might not be an option. Black and pink tricams are good for that as well.
The first thing that will get you to the top is your climbing ability; mental and physical. If you're relying on gear to keep you off the ground it had better be good.
I've done climbs with marginal protection at the start and had to decide if my climbing ability would get me to the next rest and piece. You always have to choice of backing off and I have done that as well. Once committed though I was fully committed.
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ryanb
Nov 6, 2008, 12:09 AM
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Try and get a nut or two that are good for an outward pull early in the pitch even if it is not in opposition. I find I can usually place a small nut deep in the crack behind a constriction of the lips of the crack...ie in a place where you have to push the nut in a couple of inches then slide it down the crack before seating it.
In this situation i will often test nut placements with a hard jerk straight down and a hard jerk up and out (how far up is limited by how far above your head the thing is placed) and back it up before committing to hard moves...it is difficult to visually inspect placements deep inside the crack so there is a real art to making solid placements.
You should also pick up some (doubles or triples) very small cams ... they can be wiggled in in more places then one would think. (i have pre recall aliens and old metolius fcu's and borrow c3's on occasion)
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grampacharlie
Nov 13, 2008, 1:25 PM
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I try to set a peice that's good for an upward, and outward pull early on. It won't help you to fall onto that peice, but with that on on a short draw, it should keep the rope from pulling outward and upward on other peices further up.
Likewise, keeping you belayer as close to the first piece will help.
Oh yeah, and I weld the sh*t of em too so that a little jiggleing won't knock em out.
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flint
Nov 13, 2008, 2:01 PM
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vegastradguy wrote: set the nut, sling it as long as you can safely (account for ledges, etc) and go.
In this case I tend to really REALLY set the nut... as much as the stance will allow. Your second might hate you but you will feel better when your ass is not on the ground.
j-
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IsayAutumn
Nov 13, 2008, 2:07 PM
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I don't climb hard trad, but I am working on it and hope to some day soon. That said, take my advice for what it's worth. I would agree with vegastradguy, except to say that climbing hard trad routes is not an entitlement. If you are a long way above sketch gear, your life is in your hands. Set the best gear you can, but know that bailing may save your life and/or limbs if things get a little hairy.
At some point, are you just going to have to bite the bullet and push it in order to improve? Maybe. How good is your insurance?
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