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HappinessIsWinning
Nov 11, 2008, 3:45 PM
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I was climbing this Saturday. I was leading. I had clipped the last bolt. I made a couple moves up and clipped the anchors. At this point I was waste level with the last hanger. I made one more move and heard a click, I looked down and I had somehow unclipped the draw from the hanger and it was clipped to my knot. It was still attached to the line leading to the belayer. All the draws were already in place. Maybe the knot caught it just right? Any ideas?
Maybe these will help...
Edited to add: Maybe this was what happened...
(This post was edited by HappinessIsWinning on Nov 11, 2008, 4:33 PM)
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Example-1.jpg
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Example-2.jpg
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Example 3.JPG
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rtwilli4
Nov 11, 2008, 3:54 PM
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dunno but now you're ready to clean the route.
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lena_chita
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Nov 11, 2008, 3:58 PM
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Z-clipping?
The fact that you said that after the last bolt you made "couple moves up" makes me think that the last bolt and the anchors weren't too fat apart and when you pulled the rope to clip into anchors you pulled the rope from below the last bolt, instead of pulling it from above the last bolt...
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Feller
Nov 11, 2008, 4:10 PM
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back clipped? I know that's usually only a problem if you fall....a big problem...but I could see how if the rope caught it right, it could unclip itself. just a thought.
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jdefazio
Nov 11, 2008, 4:12 PM
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HappinessIsWinning wrote: <snip> At this point I was waste level with the last hanger. <snip>
were you drunk again?
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HappinessIsWinning
Nov 11, 2008, 4:16 PM
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lena_chita wrote: Z-clipping? The fact that you said that after the last bolt you made "couple moves up" makes me think that the last bolt and the anchors weren't too fat apart and when you pulled the rope to clip into anchors you pulled the rope from below the last bolt, instead of pulling it from above the last bolt...
I think this is what might have happened, my knot was below the last hanger when I clipped the anchors. It most have got caught in the draw and unclipped it.
Edited: Didn't really understand what you meant so I googled it. I'm almost 100% sure this didn't happen.
(This post was edited by HappinessIsWinning on Nov 11, 2008, 4:25 PM)
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HappinessIsWinning
Nov 11, 2008, 4:18 PM
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Feller wrote: back clipped? I know that's usually only a problem if you fall....a big problem...but I could see how if the rope caught it right, it could unclip itself. just a thought.
Don't think that was the problem. The rope didn't unclip from the draw. On the contrary it clipped into it and unclipped the draw from the hanger.
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Feller
Nov 11, 2008, 4:24 PM
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oh gotcha. I misunderstood the situation.
Could have been the rock goblins. they're known for doing sneaky things like that.
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HappinessIsWinning
Nov 11, 2008, 4:26 PM
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It was very strange and the people I was climbing with didn't seem to understand it anymore then I did. It seems so unlikely that the knot would actually unclip the draw from the hanger, but I can't imagine how else it would have occurred.
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HappinessIsWinning
Nov 11, 2008, 4:29 PM
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jdefazio wrote: HappinessIsWinning wrote: <snip> At this point I was waste level with the last hanger. <snip> were you drunk again?
I never drink and climb. Although drunk posting might be as hazardous. 
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viciado
Nov 11, 2008, 4:40 PM
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I think Lena has it right. I would add that it is possible that when you z-clipped, this caused the draw to pull and the hanger engaged the gate causing it to open. You indicate that your knot was at the level of the hanger, the open gate could have caught the loop of the knot resulting in what (I think) I see in your second drawing.
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Goo
Nov 11, 2008, 4:41 PM
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HappinessIsWinning wrote: I was climbing this Saturday. I was leading. I had clipped the last bolt. I made a couple moves up and clipped the anchors. At this point I was waste level with the last hanger. I made one more move and heard a click, I looked down and I had somehow unclipped the draw from the hanger and it was clipped to my knot. It was still attached to the line leading to the belayer. All the draws were already in place. Maybe the knot caught it just right? Any ideas? Maybe these will help... [image] http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=2807;[/image] [image] http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=2808;[/image] Edited to add: Maybe this was what happened... [image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=2809;[/image]
how could your knot catch the draw? maybe you should learn to tie a neater knot.
edited for spelling
(This post was edited by Goo on Nov 11, 2008, 4:42 PM)
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angry
Nov 11, 2008, 4:46 PM
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Weird shit happens. Don't obsess over it.
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HappinessIsWinning
Nov 11, 2008, 4:47 PM
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angry wrote: Weird shit happens. Don't obsess over it.
Just trying to figure it out, so it doesn't happen again.
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Carnage
Nov 11, 2008, 4:48 PM
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im gonna say you had wiregates on the bolt end?
the move prob involved you holding your hips close to the wall, and as you moved up, the rope side biner clipped your knot. continued upward movement allowed the draw to rotate, when the wiregate of the hanger end biner hit nut from the bolt, it pushed the gate open and the biner unclipped.
refer here for pics http://www.climerware.com/unclip.shtml
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Arrogant_Bastard
Nov 11, 2008, 4:50 PM
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Why the hell is there a bolt 3 feet below the anchors?
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angry
Nov 11, 2008, 4:51 PM
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The thing is, it was almost certainly a combination of factors and you'd be hard pressed to ever repeat it. Even on the same place on the same route.
The only thing I'd even try to learn from this is that if you're counting on a single piece/draw then a locking biner is in order.
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HappinessIsWinning
Nov 11, 2008, 4:51 PM
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They were solid gates.
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HappinessIsWinning
Nov 11, 2008, 4:56 PM
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More like 4-5, but yeah it was like a 20ft route with 4 bolts. A bit of over kill for sure. Not sure who the FA was, but the route is called Mrs Cool, towards the back of Penitente.
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spikeddem
Nov 11, 2008, 5:45 PM
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angry wrote: The thing is, it was almost certainly a combination of factors and you'd be hard pressed to ever repeat it. Even on the same place on the same route. The only thing I'd even try to learn from this is that if you're counting on a single piece/draw then a locking biner is in order.
And apparently what z-clipping is too . . . (Not you angry, the OP.)
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j_ung
Nov 11, 2008, 6:03 PM
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angry wrote: The thing is, it was almost certainly a combination of factors and you'd be hard pressed to ever repeat it. Even on the same place on the same route. The only thing I'd even try to learn from this is that if you're counting on a single piece/draw then a locking biner is in order.
Second that. While I've never seen this exact thing happen, I have accidentally clipped my belay loop into the top 'biner of a draw as I was oozing past. All of a sudden, I couldn't get more than five inches away from the bolt. I'm sure this is just something similar.
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donald949
Nov 11, 2008, 6:11 PM
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HappinessIsWinning wrote: They were solid gates.
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HappinessIsWinning
Nov 11, 2008, 6:16 PM
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donald949 wrote: HappinessIsWinning wrote: They were solid gates. Take another look at Carnage's link. It shows how solid gates can unclip also.
Carnage wrote: im gonna say you had wiregates on the bolt end?
I was responding to this ^, not the link. That was a good link though.
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donald949
Nov 11, 2008, 6:32 PM
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HappinessIsWinning wrote: donald949 wrote: HappinessIsWinning wrote: They were solid gates. Take another look at Carnage's link. It shows how solid gates can unclip also. Carnage wrote: im gonna say you had wiregates on the bolt end? I was responding to this ^, not the link. That was a good link though.
Thats what I figured. My guess is what the top image shows is what happened to your clip.
Two side thoughts:
Your drawings and "How could this happen?" Don't have red and green arrows, is a typical noob mistake, don't let it happen again.
4 bolts in 20 feet, wow that will get er done. Or Sounds like an aid section.
Either way, be safe.
;D
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