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climbingnoise
Mar 4, 2009, 2:12 AM
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I'm wondering if I am going to hit a plateau sooner and with a potentially more lasting effect than carnivore climbers? does anyone have any knowledge on this subject?
I've been climbing since last may '08
I'm 25
vegan 3 years, meatless for like 6 or 7
currently my gym average ability is
v3 consistent
v4 every once in awhile
v5 occasionally
top rope:
10b consistent
10d usually first try no falls
11a first try no falls quarter of the time
outside I've also climbed a handful of roots without falling
a few 10as and below a 10d and an 11a
forearms are starting to exhibit a chronic strain, after reading in the injuries section I'm wondering if my tendons haven't caught up to my muscle/max strength?
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marc801
Mar 4, 2009, 2:34 AM
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climbingnoise wrote: I'm wondering if I am going to hit a plateau sooner and with a potentially more lasting effect than carnivore climbers? does anyone have any knowledge on this subject? I've been climbing since last may '08 I'm 25 vegan 3 years, meatless for like 6 or 7 currently my gym average ability is v3 consistent v4 every once in awhile v5 occasionally top rope: 10b consistent 10d usually first try no falls 11a first try no falls quarter of the time outside I've also climbed a handful of roots without falling a few 10as and below a 10d and an 11a forearms are starting to exhibit a chronic strain, after reading in the injuries section I'm wondering if my tendons haven't caught up to my muscle/max strength?
Eat some hamburgers or steaks.
Are you vegan because you hate plants?
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rockforlife
Mar 4, 2009, 2:46 AM
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P.E.T.A anyone he he he...
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gblauer
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Mar 4, 2009, 2:46 AM
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Been a vegetarian for 40 years, try to be dairy free as much as possible...not quite vegan.
I find that I really need to boost my protein intake when I am training hard or on a long climbing trip. I supplement with protein powder, nuts, tofu. It's hard to control my caloric intake when I need the protein. (probably not an issue for you)
(This post was edited by gblauer on Mar 4, 2009, 1:39 PM)
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Sarah_Sunshine
Mar 4, 2009, 2:46 AM
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Are you making sure you are getting all the essential amino acids? Have you read up on nutrition? When I started a strict vegetarian diet, I had chronic fatigue because I wasn't getting enough iron. Now I take supplements and I'm fine. You may want to talk to someone with training in nutrition or research it yourself. A vegetarian diet is healthful if you do it right.
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N_Oo_B
Mar 4, 2009, 2:57 AM
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i see little reason why it has to limit you.
on the other hand i see many reasons it "could"
one of my partners is a veggie, but he's never led harder than 5.10 in 15 years.
on the flip side, he has the bodily ability to make it up harder routes...just not the desire to risk tendon damage/training schedual.
none the less, research amino acids as well as things like iron/zinc/etc.
i know one of the single hardest things to get in a healthy food form is B12.
g/l and progress at a safe pace..
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silascl
Mar 4, 2009, 3:24 AM
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Ethan Pringle is vegetarian and climbs 5.15, so no, I don't think that's your problem.
My guess is you're hitting your first plateau as a beginner. Try reading The Self Coached Climber.
(This post was edited by silascl on Mar 4, 2009, 4:05 AM)
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N_Oo_B
Mar 4, 2009, 3:32 AM
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silascl wrote: Ethan Pringle is vegan and climbs 5.15, so no, I don't think that's your problem. My guess is you're hitting your first plateau as a beginner. Try reading The Self Coached Climber.
wow news to me. point made though
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brotherbbock
Mar 4, 2009, 3:47 AM
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silascl wrote: Ethan Pringle is vegan and climbs 5.15, so no, I don't think that's your problem. My guess is you're hitting your first plateau as a beginner. Try reading The Self Coached Climber.
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silascl
Mar 4, 2009, 4:03 AM
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brotherbbock wrote: silascl wrote: Ethan Pringle is vegan and climbs 5.15, so no, I don't think that's your problem. My guess is you're hitting your first plateau as a beginner. Try reading The Self Coached Climber. I call BULLS__T!!
Doh, I lied, he's supposedly vegetarian though.
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rhythm164
Mar 4, 2009, 4:06 AM
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I've been vegetarian for almost 12 years and climb 5.12/V7. I don't feel as though I've plateaued. A responsible vegetarian/vegan diet should not pose a significant negative influence on you climbing prowess. Veggie burgers & Ramen noodles don't count as a responsible diet. Research foods that can provide amino acids that you might lose without meat as a protein source, not to mention B vitamins, omega threes, iron, and other minerals an unexamined vegetarian diet may deprive you of. Research GI index, and how you can use different foods to your advantage. The engine is only as good as the fuel you put in it. I think everybody has a buddy that can get off the couch with a hangover and crush fueled only by cheap coffee, cigarettes and donuts. My guess is you're not that guy, eat smart.
As far as your plateau, considering the time you've been climbing, I suspect that the underlying cause of this is inexperience, shabby technique, and the fact that you seemingly climb mostly in a gym. Not that there's anything wrong with gym climbing, it's great, but a 5.10 in a gym does not equal 5.10 outside. I'd say try to get out more! You'll learn how to actually read the route instead of the tape, and you'll learn how to climb efficiently. I think I saw a reference to the Self- Coached Climber in this thread, that book is great, I'd highly recommend picking it up.
Hope you break through.
(This post was edited by rhythm164 on Mar 4, 2009, 4:49 AM)
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brotherbbock
Mar 4, 2009, 4:07 AM
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silascl wrote: brotherbbock wrote: silascl wrote: Ethan Pringle is vegan and climbs 5.15, so no, I don't think that's your problem. My guess is you're hitting your first plateau as a beginner. Try reading The Self Coached Climber. I call BULLS__T!! Doh, I lied, he's supposedly vegetarian though.
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N_Oo_B
Mar 4, 2009, 4:33 AM
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speaking of him i went looking for an answer...
but all i found was his blogs about his current injury. 
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totaled108
Mar 4, 2009, 5:36 AM
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I have been a vegetarian from birth. I'm 27 and first touched a rock wall of any kind September '08.
I'm working 5.11- routes, 5.10s are the sweet spot. Slacking in the boulders, only sending up to V3. I still have about 20lbs to lose.
I used to lift wieghts, 315lbs full squats easy, incline press 120lb dumb bells, one in each hand (FULL range of motion with PERFECT form).
So yes, vegetarian diets, done right, will get you the same results as none veggie diets. Its been years since I stopped working out like that, working out to climb now, getting lean, its alot easier the lifting iron, and more fun. Less ego driven.
I started climbing at 5'11" 220lbs, now still the same hieght (I hope) but closing in on 200lbs fast. Still eating alot though.
But in no way am I going to try and talk anyone into it, not everyone is able to live a life style like that.
Oh, and I take no supplements aside from a protien shake once a day, more like every other day.
Good times 
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boracus
Mar 4, 2009, 5:39 AM
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If the vegan/vege diet has been treating you fine, i.e. you can recover from your climbing and training w/ no ill effects, then I doubt that your diet will be a limiting factor. Everyone has slightly different metabolic predispositions given their genetics, some people can eat way more fats than the rest of us and never increase their cholesterol whereas others can eat super low fat diets, do tons of cardio and still struggle to keep their LDL and total triglycerides down to a reasonable level.
I agree w/ everyone else posting, B vitamins, especially B12 is harder to come by in a vege/vegan diet. Iron is also a concern but more so for women than men. The only other recommendation I would make would be to consider supplementing w/ some creatine, this may not be a factor but it may also help as your training becomes more intense as time goes on and you have to work harder to continue improving. There are a handful of supplements that fall into this category I simply mention considering the creatine now since meat is pretty much the sole source in the diet.
As far as the feeling of muscle strain, you're exactly right. Muscles will adapt much more quickly to training/climbing than will the associated tendons. The tendons and passive structures such as ligaments and joint capsules are always the limiting factor when you're trying to increase the amount of force your neuromuscular system can generate. Listen to your body, stay hydrated(tendons are one of the first structures to become dehydrated during physical exertion), educate yourself on how to improve and be a little patient... after having climbed for over a decade and experiencing a variety of different injuries I'm of the opinion that it's more fun to climb more often at a little lower intensity than to kill it and end up being forced to take down time to get over an injury.
cheers, BA
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rockforlife
Mar 4, 2009, 5:48 AM
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totaled108 wrote: I have been a vegetarian from birth. I'm 27 and first touched a rock wall of any kind September '08. I'm working 5.11- routes, 5.10s are the sweet spot. Slacking in the boulders, only sending up to V3. I still have about 20lbs to lose. I used to lift wieghts, 315lbs full squats easy, incline press 120lb dumb bells, one in each hand (FULL range of motion with PERFECT form). So yes, vegetarian diets, done right, will get you the same results as none veggie diets. Its been years since I stopped working out like that, working out to climb now, getting lean, its alot easier the lifting iron, and more fun. Less ego driven. I started climbing at 5'11" 220lbs, now still the same hieght (I hope) but closing in on 200lbs fast. Still eating alot though. But in no way am I going to try and talk anyone into it, not everyone is able to live a life style like that. Oh, and I take no supplements aside from a protien shake once a day, more like every other day. Good times
he he he
(This post was edited by rockforlife on Mar 4, 2009, 5:48 AM)
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roperunner
Mar 4, 2009, 6:14 AM
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Climbing is done outdoors!! If God did not want us to eat meat he wouldn't have made it taste like cow!!
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Durin
Mar 4, 2009, 6:57 AM
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In reply to: I have been a vegetarian from birth. I'm 27 and first touched a rock wall of any kind September '08. I'm working 5.11- routes, 5.10s are the sweet spot. Slacking in the boulders, only sending up to V3. I still have about 20lbs to lose.
Forgive me if this is a bit rude, but... you've been vegetarian since birth and have 20lbs of excess fat?
Also, to OP: do you track your daily complete protein intake?
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chetroy
Mar 4, 2009, 1:02 PM
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I started climbing 15 years ago. I stopped eating any kind of meat about 13 years ago and went fully vegan about 3 years ago. I am 36, still getting stronger (V sandbag 9/10, last fall TRed my first 5.14) and feel great. The key is research, smart diet, and the desire for progression. My wife has a very informative blog. http://chetroy.com/healthyvegan/
I have had all great results from my choices. Everyone is different, do what works for you.
chetroy.com
pe4ce
(This post was edited by chetroy on Mar 4, 2009, 1:06 PM)
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iron106
Mar 4, 2009, 1:36 PM
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I agree that is probably has more to do with your training than your Diet. Diet is important, make sure you are getting all of your protein, vitamins and minerals.
http://www.mypyramid.gov/
has a dietary recall, if you have not done one. It takes a while if you have never done one of these. It is already paid for by your tax dollars so I say use it, if you are worried about getting enough nutrition.
(This post was edited by iron106 on Mar 4, 2009, 1:40 PM)
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lena_chita
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Mar 4, 2009, 3:12 PM
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Durin wrote: In reply to: I have been a vegetarian from birth. I'm 27 and first touched a rock wall of any kind September '08. I'm working 5.11- routes, 5.10s are the sweet spot. Slacking in the boulders, only sending up to V3. I still have about 20lbs to lose. Forgive me if this is a bit rude, but... you've been vegetarian since birth and have 20lbs of excess fat?
What, you've never seen fat vegatarians? Not eating any meat doesn't preclude you from consuming too many calories. (all desserts are usually meat free, LOL). It's the total calories that count in the end, as far as weight gain. And everybody is different, some people put on weight more easily than others, and it is true whether they eat a veggie diet, or an omnivorous one.
I know a vegeatarian whose idea of healthy food is supper-cheesy cheese pizza, no tomato sauce, please -- hey, it has no meat, right? I am not saying most vegetarians are like that-- usually a vegetarian person is more health-concious and eats more fruits, veggies and legumes to compensate for lack of meat. But you can be vegetarian AND very unhealthy, it is not unheard of.
To the OP: as others have said, it is not likely that your diet is the issue, if you are generally feeling healthy with your diet. Checking/upping your protein intake and making sure you get enough iron are always good ideas.
But you may also consider that this is the same situation many carnivores find themselves in, in regards to climbing. When you first start, you improve very quickly. Then the rate of progress slows down, and you need to examine what your weaknesses are, and work on those to improve further.
Also, carnivores are not immune to tendon problems either. Muscles do build up faster than tendons, and Doing too much too soon can result in injury.
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headchop
Mar 4, 2009, 3:29 PM
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I have quite a few veggie friends who climb - a couple who boulder in the V8-V9 range and one at V11. I don't believe any are vegan.
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roy_hinkley_jr
Mar 4, 2009, 4:18 PM
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boracus wrote: stay hydrated (tendons are one of the first structures to become dehydrated during physical exertion)
Good post Boracus and pretty much right on. Do you happen to have a reference for this though? Doesn't seem likely.
OP, it's certainly easier to eat healthy as an omnivore, semi-veg, or lacto-ovo veg, both in terms of fueling and recovery. There are no health benefits to going vegan but it can be okay healthwise if you do a lot of homework. You can eat poorly on any style of diet but it's the ones that are at extreme ends of the spectrum that cause the most problems in the longterm.
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olderic
Mar 4, 2009, 4:51 PM
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marc801 wrote: climbingnoise wrote: outside I've also climbed a handful of roots without falling Yes. Eat some hamburgers or steaks. Are you vegan because you hate plants?
He's already said he climbs "roots" by the handful so it seems quite likely that he hates plants.
(Slightly) more seriously I climbed my best when I was not only a vegetarian but quite obsessive about healthy food in general - no white flour, no sugar and no alcohol (what was I thinking ). But I don't think my diet was the reason - it was the fact that it was 30 years ago and I was in my prime. There are typically too many variables to isolate a simple cause and effect realtionship. Your self description sounds like most people who have been climbing about as long as you - independent of diet.
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