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metoliusmunchkin
Oct 28, 2001, 12:41 AM
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What do you fellow rock climbers think of the new boulderers of today (Chris Sharma, Obe Carrion, Dave Graham etc.) compared with the 'fathers of bouldering' of yesteryear (John Gill and friends)?
Would you say that the 'new school' boulderers have forgotten the true passion of bouldering, or are in it just to fool around, or are doing some serious business ripping it up? How would this affect the reputation of the older boulderers from the 60's to the 80's?
So many questions, so little answers.
So much climbing passion, so little climbers.
Pat.
[ This Message was edited by: metoliusmunchkin on 2001-10-27 17:42 ]
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rrrADAM
Oct 28, 2001, 1:33 AM
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They're apples and oranges...
The climbers of today climb V10's, climbing at this level was deemed impossible in the 60's. There were no routes above 5.9 back then in the US.
But then you gotta remember, John Gill put up problems that are now rated at V4 without climbing shoes, there were none. Think about that.
rrrADAM
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kagunkie
Oct 28, 2001, 1:08 PM
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They didnt even have stickey rubber shoes back then. I dont think the climbers are any different or any better now they just have the benefit of the experience of those who came before.
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kriso9tails
Oct 28, 2001, 5:30 PM
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I wouldn't say that there were no routes harder than 5.9 in the 60s. I think there were just no routes rated that high. The scales just grown since then. Think about it, 5.15 was considered not be be a grade by many for a long time. Nobody will aknowledge (or confirm) the first 15 (I don't remember the specifics) so it will probably be lables 14c/d even though it may be as hard as realization.
Even without the gear, Chris Sharma, Obe Carrion, Dave Graham (etc.) are probably still climbing harder; but if 60s climbers could get full sponserships to climb like no other then they would probably be at the same level when you consider the handicaps (ie. no tight climbing shoes with stealth rubber).
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metoliusmunchkin
Oct 28, 2001, 11:34 PM
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I would think that there were routes in the 60's that were 5.14 (the rocks there things are bolted are millions of years old, they must have been around in the 60's ) and that it was just an issue of dicovering the routes and having to work on (project) the route.
I must admit though, that the gear of today does make a big difference, and that the boulderers of yesteryear did not have these certain items. I think logically though, we must concur that we have, as a climbing/bouldering community, advanced in many different ways. In the 70's and 80's there were rock shoes, and still there were not a lot of records of 5.13/14's.
And, concerning the John Gill barefoot issue. John Gill probably would be a great climer today, with the rad Anasazi Velcros and a crash pad, though in the movie Rampage, Chris Sharma breaks one of his shoes in half (or rips it or something) and is forced to climb barefoot. This barefooted climbing monster, was still (with the weakness of lack of shoes) hauling ass up some very hard boulder problems.
Additions to the debate...
P.a.t.
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rrrADAM
Oct 28, 2001, 11:36 PM
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He wasn't barefoot, he just didn't have climbing shoes.
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kagunkie
Oct 29, 2001, 12:10 AM
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We climb on the acomplishments of those who came before us, hopefully to leave another rung in the ladder for those who will follow us.
[ This Message was edited by: kagunkie on 2001-10-28 16:12 ]
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rrrADAM
Oct 29, 2001, 12:14 AM
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Very profound kagunkie, I think I'll quote you.
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jds100
Oct 30, 2001, 2:39 AM
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I can't remember his name, but there was a guy, in Arizona I think, who guarded his privacy and accomplishments very jealously, who did climb barefooted.
John Sherman's book, "Stone Crusade", is absolutely excellent as the best history of bouldering in the U.S. I've ever read. It's like the "Camp 4" (the book) of bouldering.
Jim Holloway is another "old" boulderer who was doing futuristic things, too. Most of these guys were scratchin' for a living, and who knew anything about proper nutrition for athletic achievement back then? It's amazing, what these guys did with the resources available to them!
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metoliusmunchkin
Oct 31, 2001, 2:03 AM
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'Tis true that these boulderers of yesteryear were definitely amazing, for that time, and especially for the resources that were available to them in there era.
I must ask another question, since this topic has presented itself a little more clearly to me. Did the older boulderers usually climb barefooted, or did they have some old EB's or Boréal's to aid them?
THanks.
P.a.t.
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iclimb512s
Nov 3, 2001, 2:51 AM
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i think the old guys are cool, because without the oldies, we wouldnt have the newies . am i right?? v4 with no shoes...ouch.
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compclimber
Nov 3, 2001, 3:27 AM
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I would like to top off the coment on Jim Holloway. He was an absolute monster when it came to bouldering. He was doing power V-8s in tennis shoes in the 70s, currently there are still at least 2 problems on the front range that are unreapeted in their original state (ie some a-hole chipped pockets). These problems would probably weigh in at V-12 or so but the only problem is Holloway was 6'4" and was making some huge reaches for him (read Dave Graham is gonna have to dyno )
Just a little History lesson for you
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diegow
Nov 3, 2001, 11:49 PM
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I think that the new ones really love climbing and thats makes them be like the old ones
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