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rcmoose
May 2, 2009, 6:29 PM
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As an Indian Creek fan I have wondered about what is the fewest number of cams/nuts/etc needed to get up 19/20 of the routes at IC - not too many, not too few.
1. Leave out the extreme routes like Meathooks - (9 blue Camalots & 6 grey Camalots) & Tricks Are For Kids - (20 #1 & #1.5 Friends)
2. Leave out the long offwidth stuff that needs lots of red/green Friends
These types of routes are usually intentionally sought and necessary gear will be known in advance.
Until recently, every time we headed up to a wall we either had cams that were not used or some cams of which a few more would have been useful.
The following is the current iteration of my IC just- right rack:
2 70m ropes (23#)
1 set small/medium BD stoppers
1 20' webbing
8 trad draws
2 double-locker quickdraws - for clipping the anchors
2 quickdraws - for the anchors
1ea Alien - blue, green
1ea TCU - 0, 1
3ea Metolius fat cams - 2yellow, 3orange, 9maroon
1 0.3Camalot
2 0.4Camalots
4 0.5Camalots
5 0.75Camalots
5 1Camalots
7 2Camalots
7 3Camalots
5 4Camalots
1 5Camalot
1 4Friend
3 5Friends
3 6Friends
4 .5Link Cams
4 .75Link Cams
6 1link Cams
5 2Link Cams
The 77 cams weigh 43# total
(The 5/6 Friends/Camalots weigh 7#)
2 people can handle the 66# total with 2 ropes.
With 3 people, the weight is quite acceptable.
So far, I have NOT had too few cams so I expect these cam numbers will decrease as I note what is/is not used each day at the Creek.
I am interested in any thoughts/suggestions with regard to my experiment.
(Disclosure - I do not get on any 5.12 or 5.13 routes)
Thanks
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camhead
May 2, 2009, 6:49 PM
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You could definitely climb at most of the more "accessible" cliffs at the Creek without the stoppers, webbing, or any of the trad draws. I would only take the webbing if you plan on doing more obscure routes that may require tat removal/replacement.
Beyond that, it all depends on what you plan on climbing for the day. One reason I love finger cracks is that the gear they require is so light! So, personally, I would bring way more .3 and .4 camalot sizes.
Conversely, once you get dialed on hand-sized cracks, you can get away with just taking one or two gold or blue camalots. When I was really dialed at the Creek, I would stay away from handcracks altogether, and leave the larger gear in camp.
Another thing is that I might bring more #4 friends, since 4 camalots are not really a replacement for them.
But, overall, it looks like a pretty comprehensive rack. I would definitely split it up amongst the group, though.
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angry
May 2, 2009, 7:14 PM
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You're doing pretty good, here's mine.
1 black alien
1 blue alien
6 green alien (or equivalent)
9 yellow alien (or equivalent)
7 red alien or .5 camalot
9 .75 camalots
7 1 camalots or 2 friends
4 2.5 friends
4 3 friends
4 3.5 friends
4 4 friends
3 4 camalots
1 4.5 camalot
3 6 friend or old 5 camalots
Like you, I don't take the big stuff up to the cliff unless I know I'm using it. I take up to the 4 friends and am fine with it. Aside from offwidth, I don't pare it down. I've usually got one 70meter rope in my bag, 2-4 quarts of water, 2-3 pairs of shoes, and sometimes a bolt kit. I do throw my tagline on someone elses bag if I can.
The beauty of the creek is how inclusive it is. It's one of the few areas that will give you total fitness. Between the bag, the approach, and the climbing, if you spend enough time there you get fully strong.
Like Camhead said, get solid on the hands and you don't need much. Meathooks goes fine with my rack, so does SC Memorial, Supercrack, or Bunny Slope. Aside from some extremely unlikely happening, I simply know that I won't fall on a 2.5-4 friend size vertical crack. 20-30 feet between pro is fine with me.
With my rack (and yours is pretty much the same) I have most everything. If my partner has even a double set, we're covered.
Between your metolius and BD stuff, you've got all you need. The only thing I'd do is add pieces if there's a size you're constantly running out of.
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clintcummins
May 2, 2009, 8:55 PM
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Here's my list. (As it turns out, not so many small cams are needed for Finger Fun; it's mostly easy).
Multiples of cams needed for various routes under 5.12
(sizes listed are for Friends, just like in the route lists)
N size routes
6? .4 6?: Finger Fun p2
6? .5 6?: Finger Fun p1-p2, 4: Deseret Moon Direct Start
6? .75 6?: Finger Fun p1, 5: Kool Cat
7 1 7: Anasazi, 6: Johnny Cat, 5: Pente, Teri's Lieback
6 1.5 10: Too Much Cake, 6: Rump Roast, Excuse Station, Slot Machine, 5: Anasazi, Karin's Corner
12 2 12: Quarter of a Man, Slot Machine
8 2.5 8: Top Sirloin, 6: Tube Steaks Tomorrow, Nine Lives, Pente, Incr. Hand Crack
6 3 9: Hole in the Wall, 8-: Generic Crack, 7: un BT d, Dental Floss Tycoon, 6: Warmup Handcrack, Whale's Back, 5: Blue Sun
5 3.5 8: Jolly Rancher, 7: Hole in the Wall, 6: Pit Bull Terror, 5: Fat Cat, un BT d, Supercrack, 4: Three AM Crack, 3: Blue Sun, ?: Castleton North Face
4 4 4: No Name Crack (Supercrack Buttress)
2 4.5 2: various
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rcmoose
May 2, 2009, 9:06 PM
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What you mention about running it out on handcracks is one of the reasons I have had trouble figuring out how how many of what sized cams to bring to all crags.
With the mixed skill-levels of jammers I climb with, some don't really get their feet above the cam & some are pleased with a cam every 10-20' as you describe.
There is also the effect of 50' of #2 Camalots with 2 spots that will take a #3 Camalot.
This allows one to get more protection mileage out of fewer of a certain size cam than would otherwise be the case.
Anyway, thanks for your input.
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iamthewallress
May 2, 2009, 9:43 PM
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Sounds like pack training! With a total of 17 Camalots in the green-yellow range and 11 of Link cams in the similar range, your most timid partners will not need to worry about getting their feet near the gear on the hand/thin hands cracks...even the really long ones.
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Durin
May 6, 2009, 12:22 AM
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In reply to: The beauty of the creek is how inclusive it is. It's one of the few areas that will give you total fitness. Between the bag, the approach, and the climbing, if you spend enough time there you get fully strong.
I haven't been to the creek (REALLY eager to go though)... how is it any better for fitness than other areas?
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angry
May 6, 2009, 12:39 AM
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Because your bag weighs 60lbs, you walk uphill in the sun for 45 minutes, and you climb 100-150' pitches that are physical every inch.
Then you get back to campground and end up drinking and forget to eat or are too tired to make a proper dinner.
That place will have you ripped like Jesus in no time.
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Durin
May 6, 2009, 1:54 AM
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Now I want to go even more >:(
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cchas
May 6, 2009, 4:26 PM
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Look at the book, figure out what you want to climb and rack accordingly with a few extra cams in the sizes suggested and a few cams to bracket the sizes suggested (no matter how good a book is theree will always be errors, and David Bloom while reasonably good still has a few errors).
You may find you want 2-3 in each size or you may find you want 9 in a few sizes. Depends on the route.
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irregularpanda
May 6, 2009, 4:31 PM
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angry wrote: ripped like Jesus
Every time you say that, you make the omnipotent baby jesus cry.
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tradrenn
May 6, 2009, 7:39 PM
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I think it depends s bit.
Are you going alone ?
or
Are you going with the partner ?
If you are going with the partner than you should have enough gear for both of you, 6 of each, IMO.
If you are going alone then 4 sets should do just fine, because you will meet another climber also with a rack and he/she will have 2 sets (which I was told was a minimum)
When I was there in early march I had 4 sets of mine, 1 set from my partner in BC and I hooked up for climbing with the guy from Colorado who had 3 sets. Carrying 8 set of cams to Way Rambo can be quite a challenge, you will see what I mean if you go there.
Have fun dude.
P.S. One 70 meter rope is enough, leave second in the car or your tent, stoppers, tricams, hexes I would also leave behind.
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camhead
May 6, 2009, 7:56 PM
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tradrenn wrote: P.S. One 70 meter rope is enough, leave second in the car or your tent, stoppers, tricams, hexes I would also leave behind.
I've got to disagree, actually. Several classic routes require two ropes to get off (Pente, Bunny Slope, and Sacred Cow come to mind). Check the guidebook, and if it mentions that the climbs are over 130' or so, take two ropes.
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angry
May 6, 2009, 8:00 PM
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camhead wrote: tradrenn wrote: P.S. One 70 meter rope is enough, leave second in the car or your tent, stoppers, tricams, hexes I would also leave behind. I've got to disagree, actually. Several classic routes require two ropes to get off (Pente, Bunny Slope, and Sacred Cow come to mind). Check the guidebook, and if it mentions that the climbs are over 130' or so, take two ropes.
Technically, 130' is too long for a 70 also but 130' usually means 115'. This isn't 100% universal though, so you may end up downclimbing a hair on those routes.
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cracklover
May 6, 2009, 8:05 PM
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Is a 70 really needed? I've always brought two 60s, and have rarely needed the second one. But maybe it's just a matter of time before I get screwed?
GO
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camhead
May 6, 2009, 8:18 PM
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angry wrote: camhead wrote: tradrenn wrote: P.S. One 70 meter rope is enough, leave second in the car or your tent, stoppers, tricams, hexes I would also leave behind. I've got to disagree, actually. Several classic routes require two ropes to get off (Pente, Bunny Slope, and Sacred Cow come to mind). Check the guidebook, and if it mentions that the climbs are over 130' or so, take two ropes. Technically, 130' is too long for a 70 also but 130' usually means 115'. This isn't 100% universal though, so you may end up downclimbing a hair on those routes.
Notice that I did not say "if the climb is over 130 feet." I said "if the guidebook mentiones that the climbs are over 130 feet." All climbs that Bloom says are 130 feet or less that I have done are do-able with a 70m.
Bloom lists Optimator as 130 feet; Excuse Station, Spaghetti Western, and Generic Crack as 120 feet. Mathematically, none of those would be do-able with a 70m rope, but you know very well that they are.
Confused?
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camhead
May 6, 2009, 8:19 PM
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cracklover wrote: Is a 70 really needed? I've always brought two 60s, and have rarely needed the second one. But maybe it's just a matter of time before I get screwed? GO
but, once again, if you wanted to do any of the routes that I mentioned in my last post, you would have to haul two ropes along if you have a 60m. Do you really want to do that?
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angry
May 6, 2009, 8:20 PM
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It's not needed. All it does is increase the number of routes you can get away with climbing with only one rope. I've got this sneaking suspicion that you're using doubles or twins there, in that case, you'd get away with a set of 50's most of the time.
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angry
May 6, 2009, 8:22 PM
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camhead wrote: cracklover wrote: Is a 70 really needed? I've always brought two 60s, and have rarely needed the second one. But maybe it's just a matter of time before I get screwed? GO but, once again, if you wanted to do any of the routes that I mentioned in my last post, you would have to haul two ropes along if you have a 60m. Do you really want to do that?
sonofa!!!!!
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camhead
May 6, 2009, 8:25 PM
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angry wrote: camhead wrote: cracklover wrote: Is a 70 really needed? I've always brought two 60s, and have rarely needed the second one. But maybe it's just a matter of time before I get screwed? GO but, once again, if you wanted to do any of the routes that I mentioned in my last post, you would have to haul two ropes along if you have a 60m. Do you really want to do that? sonofa!!!!!
shut the fuck up Angry! Stay out of my advice thread, asshole! I will cut you! I've got a blade and I WILL CUT YOU!
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tradrenn
May 6, 2009, 8:28 PM
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Camhead & Angry: Thank you for correcting me.
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tradrenn
May 6, 2009, 8:33 PM
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cracklover wrote: Is a 70 really needed? I've always brought two 60s, and have rarely needed the second one. But maybe it's just a matter of time before I get screwed? GO
Yes you will, at Way Rambo you could do "Fuzz" a 130' 5.10, both ends of my 70 were about 8 feet of the ground when we did it.
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