Collagen and gelatin are materials made up of a variety of ingredients, including amino acids and protein fibers.

i'm just thinking as i type, so feel free to tear me apart here. as a last point, i'm wondering if you couldn't get the same benefits with a whole lot less effort just by gnawing on a cartilage loaded chicken wing...

scoff that crunchy sucker and call it good?

steve

Wrong? A variety of amino acids in different amounts and varieties, that make up protein fibers to make different structures/materials.

Dude, seriously.

I feel for you. Really do. I've no doubt you mean well, and your intentions are good, moral, and pure.

In the end, though, you're the guy that brought a knife to a gun fight.

i'll go first - probably fair enough seeing as i was the one who flagged that part of your post for further, er, discussion...

assuming that everything you say is spot on, my question would be exactly how much of your bone broth you'd need to consume to make any appreciable difference to your nutrient intake. i mean, what % of your broth will be anything other than water? 1%? 2%?

for the sake of argument let's go nuts and say that it's 5% solids. on your website you state "I fry three eggs in 6 tablespoons of cold broth". six tablespoons is 90 grams of water, so your broth mix is perhaps less than 5 grams of solids. assuming that's 100% protein, it's less protein than is in a single egg, less than is in what, half an ounce of chicken, tuna, or steak?

and the amount of calcium in that? i have no idea, but i think it'd be a safe bet to assume it's less than a glass of milk would contain.

i'm just thinking as i type, so feel free to tear me apart here. as a last point, i'm wondering if you couldn't get the same benefits with a whole lot less effort just by gnawing on a cartilage loaded chicken wing...

scoff that crunchy sucker and call it good?

steve

the only way we will really know is if we convince adatsman to buy a mass spec.

Dude, seriously.

You are so far out of your comfort zone, it ain't funny.

Aerili and Hardman have forgotten more about athletic performance and nutrition than you know. Each, individually.

I feel for you. Really do. I've no doubt you mean well, and your intentions are good, moral, and pure.

In the end, though, you're the guy that brought a knife to a gun fight.

I'm starting/moving this thread from a thread with a different topic. It seems to have generated a lot of excitement.

The topic: Bone Broth as a powerful tool to keep your tendons and connective tissue strong.


Onceahardman said:

"The claim was this:

[Protein intake in general absolutely does have a great deal to do with the development of Tendonitis.]

That is not the same as saying bone-stock soups are nutritious. If eating bone soup cures tendinitis, then answer this:

Please limit your response to actually defending the claim."

It's pretty simple to defend that claim.

If a person does not have enough protein intake, then the tendon doesn't have the building blocks it needs to heal well/quickly from the wear and tear damage that leads to Tendinitis.

Perhaps I should instead have made the claim "Insufficient protein intake absolutely does play a role in the development of Tendonitis."

I think the way I said it has people hear 'if you eat enough protein you won't get tendonitis'. That's not what I'm saying.


Onceahardman said:

"Well, collagen and gelatin are both proteins. You are inflating your claim, either through ignorance or intentionally."

I think I was breaking down my claim into more detail.

Collagen and gelatin are materials made up of a variety of ingredients, including amino acids and protein fibers. Different ratios, different amounts, etc. They are not identical.

"When you say, "minerals", what minerals do you mean, exactly?"

I mean calcium, magnesium, phosphorus, silicon, sulphur and trace minerals. Including the broken down material from cartilage and tendons--stuff like chondroitin sulphates and glucosamine.

"Is it your position that MEAT does not contain components of connective tissue? Or calcium? Or a complete amino acid profile (as you earlier stated)?"

I'm not saying that meat does not contain a complete amino acid profile or components of connective tissue. Obviously it does. I'm saying there's more of the latter in broth.

I am not saying that meat doesn't contain calcium. I am saying that bone broth contains more calcium than meat.

"Why is it that I, who have eaten my mother's delicious, old-school, northern European bone soup recipes for my entire life, have had tendinitis that resolved quickly with the application of manual therapy, REGARDLESS of my soup consumption? "

I don't know. I wasn't there, and I've never worked on you so I don't know what your specific Tendonitis situation is.

One possible reason is that you've eaten your mother's delicious, old-school, northern European bone soup recipes for your entire life and thus have a physical history of having strong healthy tendons, and then your manual therapist's work supports your ability to resolve your Tendintis quickly.

Or it could be that you only have minor wear and tear injury, or just a nervous system overresponding to the strain of climbing, and that most of your pain is caused by too tight muscles and an Inflammation Process that the manual therapy effectively deals with.


Lots of possibilities.

on your website you state "I fry three eggs in 6 tablespoons of cold broth".

I said it in the previous thread, and I'll say it here.

I've got your bone broth right here in my pants. ...that's what I think about this whole thing.

Your premise is, "Low protein intake has a lot to do with the development of tendinitis."

You have provided no evidence in support of your premise.

For example, do people with protein starvation (Kwashiorkor) have a higher incidence of tendinitis? I don't know. Perhaps you could look and see.

How many people who can afford to travel and climb, and live in modern counties, actually have a protein deficit? Is tendinitis more prevalent in vegetarians? Don't know. But these are the things you should be asking in support of your premise.

It would be great if your stuff worked. Just try to prove it.

Second thread = second chance to comment

Did you know that if you drive down to Evergreen (the hippy college) you can sign up to perform any fucking spectroscopy that you want to?

Ummm, you live in washington. Did you know that if you drive down to Evergreen (the hippy college) you can sign up to perform any fucking spectroscopy that you want to?

Lab 1- 2nd floor. First you have to take the 3 simple introductory/not gonna break something tests. Those are free.
Then, you can prep any sample you want to and run anything.
GCMS, FTNMR, FTIR - The list goes on, these were just the toys I played with, for free.

"Oh yeah any of you hippies can bring any samples you want in here and run tests to identify them for us."

Nice try DEA.

We have a pretty heavyweight mass spec facility where I work...we are even getting an orbitrap... but I don't think they would like a software engineer pouring a thermos of soup in it to see if it would help his fingers.

Actually, they would let you do that, for free. It's open to the community, you just have to sign up for 3 classes and learn how to prep your samples properly.

There's no DEA involved, it's pretty much just a school that allows the community to work with its spectroscopy equipment. YOu don't have to believe me, I'm just letting you know.

Disagreement and debate. Cool.
All this aggressiveness. Not so interesting.