|
dhorgan
Aug 12, 2009, 2:49 PM
Post #1 of 30
(4305 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 25, 2007
Posts: 77
|
In another thread (entitled "How much gear do you carry?") the subject of overgripping came up, and the OP was advised (probably correctly) that what he thought was one problem ("my rack is too heavy") was actually another problem ("you're overgripping like mad").
Overgripping can be a hard habit to break. Things that have helped me:
-Ask myself frequently, "Am I overgripping right now?" and relax my grip if it's too much
-Focus on my footwork: the more sure I am of my footholds, the more comfortable I am about relaxing my grip
-Make sure I'm on the best stances I can find to place pro (I find I'm most likely to overgrip when I'm placing pro)
Does anyone have other approaches they've used to break the habit of overgripping?
|
|
|
|
|
fresh
Aug 12, 2009, 3:47 PM
Post #2 of 30
(4269 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 7, 2007
Posts: 1199
|
I think you're already right on. something else that's important is to (duh) keep as little weight on your hands as possible. it's surprising how much you can improve your efficiency by being more aware of your center of gravity. even when you think you've mastered it, there is frequently a better position you can find.
this happens all the time when you're sketched out and trying to put in gear. often all it takes is to move up a foot or two to find a better position, even if it's scary to do so.
|
|
|
|
|
dingus
Aug 12, 2009, 4:49 PM
Post #3 of 30
(4236 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
|
For me over gripping is a result of a lack of confidence. Lack of confidence has many sources but almost always is rooted in fitness and schedule - fit and climbing alot = confidence = relaxed lead style.
Fat, ugly and mostly wanking on the internet = lack of confidence = grip like a disease = fail fail.
To paraphrase the Great Johnny Cochrane - to stop over grip you must be fit!
DMT
|
|
|
|
|
caughtinside
Aug 12, 2009, 4:58 PM
Post #4 of 30
(4229 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 8, 2003
Posts: 30603
|
dingus wrote: For me over gripping is a result of a lack of confidence. Lack of confidence has many sources but almost always is rooted in fitness and schedule - fit and climbing alot = confidence = relaxed lead style. Fat, ugly and mostly wanking on the internet = lack of confidence = grip like a disease = fail fail. To paraphrase the Great Johnny Cochrane - to stop over grip you must be fit! DMT
All true.
Something the tripper told me was to "get strong. When you're strong, you don't get afraid."
And it is 100% true. Strength = comfort on rock = no overgripping.
But there's other stuff too. Only place pro from good stances, breathe, etc. I had a bad habit for a while of climbing halfway through a crux, getting a tad worried, and stopping and hanging out to dick in a piece. Bad habit. Climb from rest to rest, stance to stance, and punch it in between.
|
|
|
|
|
bill413
Aug 12, 2009, 5:45 PM
Post #5 of 30
(4187 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 5674
|
There are certain climbs, or styles of climbs, that tend to cause me to overgrip. Starting the day on one that I overgrip can lead to my doing it all day.
So, getting off a "grippy" climb and onto a different climb can help me break out of doing it. And, trying not to start with ones that lure me into that bad habit.
|
|
|
|
|
dhorgan
Aug 12, 2009, 5:51 PM
Post #6 of 30
(4182 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 25, 2007
Posts: 77
|
bill413 wrote: There are certain climbs, or styles of climbs, that tend to cause me to overgrip. Starting the day on one that I overgrip can lead to my doing it all day. So, getting off a "grippy" climb and onto a different climb can help me break out of doing it. And, trying not to start with ones that lure me into that bad habit.
|
|
|
|
|
caughtinside
Aug 12, 2009, 5:57 PM
Post #7 of 30
(4177 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 8, 2003
Posts: 30603
|
Also, to avoid overgripping first route of the day, chew some mint gum.
Not kidding.
|
|
|
|
|
dhorgan
Aug 12, 2009, 5:59 PM
Post #8 of 30
(4175 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 25, 2007
Posts: 77
|
caughtinside wrote: dingus wrote: For me over gripping is a result of a lack of confidence. Lack of confidence has many sources but almost always is rooted in fitness and schedule - fit and climbing alot = confidence = relaxed lead style. Fat, ugly and mostly wanking on the internet = lack of confidence = grip like a disease = fail fail. To paraphrase the Great Johnny Cochrane - to stop over grip you must be fit! DMT All true. Something the tripper told me was to "get strong. When you're strong, you don't get afraid." And it is 100% true. Strength = comfort on rock = no overgripping. But there's other stuff too. Only place pro from good stances, breathe, etc. I had a bad habit for a while of climbing halfway through a crux, getting a tad worried, and stopping and hanging out to dick in a piece. Bad habit. Climb from rest to rest, stance to stance, and punch it in between.
Strong is certainly great...but I feel like I'm about 10 times stronger when I don't overgrip in the first place, and instead use the techniques cuaghtinside describes above. Easy to forget them when the going gets tough (i.e., the moment you most want to use those techniques).
|
|
|
|
|
bigjonnyc
Aug 12, 2009, 6:24 PM
Post #9 of 30
(4159 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 17, 2004
Posts: 369
|
caughtinside wrote: Also, to avoid overgripping first route of the day, chew some mint gum. Not kidding.
I'd love to hear the philosophy behind this one.
|
|
|
|
|
caughtinside
Aug 12, 2009, 6:43 PM
Post #10 of 30
(4145 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 8, 2003
Posts: 30603
|
bigjonnyc wrote: caughtinside wrote: Also, to avoid overgripping first route of the day, chew some mint gum. Not kidding. I'd love to hear the philosophy behind this one.
Mint naturally relaxes you. You're less likely to overgrip, especially at the beginning of the day on the warmup.
Heard this a few years back, a buddy saw it in a running magazine, where it anecdotally mentioned improving grip strength.
And I also like it for the placebo effect. Plus, chewing gum is a casual activity. If you do something casual while simultaneously doing something stressful it can help relax you.
|
|
|
|
|
bill413
Aug 12, 2009, 6:53 PM
Post #11 of 30
(4137 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 5674
|
dhorgan wrote: bill413 wrote: There are certain climbs, or styles of climbs, that tend to cause me to overgrip. Starting the day on one that I overgrip can lead to my doing it all day. So, getting off a "grippy" climb and onto a different climb can help me break out of doing it. And, trying not to start with ones that lure me into that bad habit. What styles of climbs?
I think ones that tend to throw me back on my arms with long reaches tend to be in that category. The long reaches probably have more to do with it than the angle.
|
|
|
|
|
dhorgan
Aug 12, 2009, 6:56 PM
Post #12 of 30
(4135 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 25, 2007
Posts: 77
|
bigjonnyc wrote: caughtinside wrote: Also, to avoid overgripping first route of the day, chew some mint gum. Not kidding. I'd love to hear the philosophy behind this one.
It makes you think of the Doublemint Twins, which relaxes and stimulates you.
http://www.xboxist.com/...2009/06/19/twins.jpg
(This post was edited by dhorgan on Aug 12, 2009, 6:57 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
jcosgrove
Aug 12, 2009, 7:42 PM
Post #13 of 30
(4116 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 12, 2007
Posts: 12
|
bigjonnyc wrote: Plus, chewing gum is a casual activity. If you do something casual while simultaneously doing something stressful it can help relax you.
This was "proven" by giving mints/gum to kids in high school taking tests. Look it up, as I don't know the details.
|
|
|
|
|
seatbeltpants
Aug 12, 2009, 8:16 PM
Post #14 of 30
(4094 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 9, 2008
Posts: 581
|
jcosgrove wrote: bigjonnyc wrote: Plus, chewing gum is a casual activity. If you do something casual while simultaneously doing something stressful it can help relax you. This was "proven" by giving mints/gum to kids in high school taking tests. Look it up, as I don't know the details.
i thought that was meant to be about chewing increasing blood flow to your jaw, which increased flow to the rest of your head (ie your browin) as well. that's what i was told, at least. by by math teacher when i was 14 - ymmv on that one 
ohhh, never seen the doublemint twins before. ace!
steve
|
|
|
|
|
jcosgrove
Aug 12, 2009, 8:20 PM
Post #15 of 30
(4090 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 12, 2007
Posts: 12
|
i doubt the bloodflow thing is true, and I would bet that it's simply a "take your mind off of it/relax you" kind of thing
|
|
|
|
|
charley
Aug 12, 2009, 8:53 PM
Post #16 of 30
(4068 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 13, 2002
Posts: 6627
|
Smile, it helps you relax when "gripped"
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Aug 12, 2009, 10:18 PM
Post #17 of 30
(4037 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
I think the following helped me. First of all, to stop overgripping you have to know how little force you really need to hold on. I found that I overgripped on lead, but not on top rope. If this is true for you, and you find that you are overgripping on lead, then do the route on top rope, and pay close attention to how much force you are applying to the holds. Then, repeat the route on lead, and try to reproduce the force you used on the holds when you were top roping. I think this exercise will help you start to change the overgripping habit.
Tangential factoid: There is a paper in the scientific literature (I'm too lazy to dig up the citation) that compared the grip strength that climbers and non-climbers used when picking up ordinary objects. Guess who used less grip strength?
The climbers.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Aug 12, 2009, 10:29 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
csproul
Aug 12, 2009, 10:20 PM
Post #18 of 30
(4036 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 4, 2004
Posts: 1769
|
bigjonnyc wrote: caughtinside wrote: Also, to avoid overgripping first route of the day, chew some mint gum. Not kidding. I'd love to hear the philosophy behind this one.
|
|
|
|
|
cracklover
Aug 12, 2009, 10:29 PM
Post #19 of 30
(4031 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
|
Wow, lots of great advice here! I think I might try that gum thing.
caughtinside wrote: Only place pro from good stances, breathe, etc. I had a bad habit for a while of climbing halfway through a crux, getting a tad worried, and stopping and hanging out to dick in a piece. Bad habit. Climb from rest to rest, stance to stance, and punch it in between.
This is fantastic advice in general, entirely apart from overgripping issues. It's truly amazing what a difference it makes when you allow yourself to relax, and just punch it through to get to the next stance.
This is where routefinding becomes the skill of a master: When you can look up, read the sequence, and know that you have a ten foot hard section, you have a pretty good idea how to do it, and at the end you get a really good hand jam and good gear - bingo, now you're relaxed, you're confident, you're golden, you know just exactly what you need to do, and you can relax and commit to that sequence. This, for me, was among the primary differences between trad leading 5.9 and 5.11. I kid you not.
Of course, this assumes that the falls are safe, that intermediate protection is not required, and that there *is* a short sequence that will get you to another stance, it's not just 40 feet of enduro to the belay. That's all stuff you simply need to judge on the fly.
GO
Edited for clarity.
(This post was edited by cracklover on Aug 12, 2009, 10:33 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Aug 12, 2009, 10:30 PM
Post #20 of 30
(4029 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
csproul wrote: bigjonnyc wrote: caughtinside wrote: Also, to avoid overgripping first route of the day, chew some mint gum. Not kidding. I'd love to hear the philosophy behind this one. It's hard to hold your breath while chewing gum. Not sure about the mint part.
It's hard to breathe with gum stuck in your throat, so I'm not sure about the gum part either. Yeah, there's a joke about climbing and chewing gum at the same time in there somewhere.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Aug 18, 2009, 6:10 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
cracklover
Aug 12, 2009, 10:37 PM
Post #21 of 30
(4025 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
|
bill413 wrote: There are certain climbs, or styles of climbs, that tend to cause me to overgrip. Starting the day on one that I overgrip can lead to my doing it all day. So, getting off a "grippy" climb and onto a different climb can help me break out of doing it. And, trying not to start with ones that lure me into that bad habit.
That's an interesting idea. For me, on juggy positive climbs, no matter how steep, I pretty much never overgrip. But on technical, balancy climbs, where you feel like your feet could blow at any minute, especially when the pro is so-so... Holy crap, I may try to crush every hold to oblivion! I'll try to start off my days on the former!
GO
|
|
|
|
|
Allanon124
Aug 18, 2009, 5:11 AM
Post #22 of 30
(3850 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 19, 2009
Posts: 25
|
i came up with this all by my self. im sure its gona spread like wildfire. we are goin viral
(S)thength
(A)(N)d
(D)exterity
(W)ith
(I)ntent
(C)limbing
(H)ands
the thought: when you hold a nice big soft white bread turky SANDWITCH, how do you grip it?
you dont crush it because that would smush the bread. you only hold it with enough strength that it dosent fall out of your hands. the key word here is INTENT. think about how much output is neccessary.
Peace
Tim
|
|
|
|
|
bobbj22
Aug 19, 2009, 5:43 PM
Post #23 of 30
(3740 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 13, 2007
Posts: 54
|
In reply to: It's hard to hold your breath while chewing gum. Not sure about the mint part.
Then breathe through your nose. That can allow you to pace yourself better. Also, you can tell when fatigue is setting in since you will have to start breathing through your mouth. -This is generally when the grunting and screaming begin. I've found this minor change extremely beneficial in sports that require a lot of running. (If you ever have questions regarding running, ask me first. I have a second life in the past entirely consumed by track and long distance running. I only wish I knew as much about climbing.)
How my climbing pace starts usually indicates how well I will perform for the rest of the day. Just some personal experience (inexperience?).
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Aug 19, 2009, 5:54 PM
Post #24 of 30
(3731 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
bobbj22 wrote: In reply to: It's hard to hold your breath while chewing gum. Not sure about the mint part. Then breathe through your nose.
You can also practice nose breathing while swimming during your cross-training sessions.
Jay
|
|
|
|
|
taydude
Aug 19, 2009, 6:17 PM
Post #25 of 30
(3711 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 25, 2006
Posts: 531
|
In my defense, I don't over grip. I'm very aware of how hard I'm holding on. If anything I almost slipped off a couple times trying to loosen my grip more to rest. I didn't argue the point in the other thread because the guy making it just assumed that I suck because I was on a 5.5.
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
