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USnavy
Aug 14, 2009, 11:23 AM
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Fixe recommends the bolter places their hanger over the sleeve on the Power-Bolts (5-piece Rawl). I agree with that recommendation because placing the hanger on the sleeve requires the hanger to cut through the bolt and the sleeve in sheer which in my tests, increases the sheer strength of the bolt.
However I would like to analyze that mode of bolting with the Triplex bolt (especially in the tension mode). The Triplex bolt has a flange at the end of the sleeve which prevents the hanger from coming off if the hanger is placed over the sleeve. If the installer places the hanger on the sleeve, the hanger will attempt to pull the sleeve out of the rock as the load on the bolt increases. Because the nut is flush against the flange, the cone and the sleeve will in theory, see the same amount of outward force when loaded in tension mode.
With expansion bolts, the load is transmitted along an independently moving cone (or hex bolt in regards to the Power-Bolt) which expands a stationary sleeve. The bolt holds because the sleeve resists the movement of the cone as the cone crushes the sleeve against the rock.
With the Triplex bolt (with the hanger on the sleeve) the flange forces the load to pull on both the cone and sleeve which I suspect would make the bolt move as one. This seems dangerous in that if the sleeve moves at the same rate as the cone, there is nothing for the cone to expand for the sleeve will always be “x“ distance in front of the cone since they are moving as one.
Now, simply placing the hanger on the cone and not over the sleeve will alleviate this problem, but Fixe recommends the hanger is placed over the sleeve.
Anyone care to shed some insight on this? I am going to specifically test this theory once I get my 12 mm drill bit.
(This post was edited by USnavy on Aug 14, 2009, 11:55 AM)
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bigo
Aug 14, 2009, 7:05 PM
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Here is a related discussion on ST
http://www.supertopo.com/...html?topic_id=743502
I have never used these bolts, but my understanding is the best practice for installing a 12mm bolt permanently is to use a hanger with a 10mm hole installed on the stud only - with the sleeve flush to the rock. This will make them more difficult to remove, but less susceptible to being pulled out if loaded in tension.
edited for clarity
(This post was edited by bigo on Aug 15, 2009, 4:41 PM)
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majid_sabet
Aug 14, 2009, 8:16 PM
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Bolting should be done by experienced people who know what they are doing. if you are incompetent and not sure how to do and constantly seek advice from the internet about bolting then please let someone else do it for you before you actually kill yourself or someone else .
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climbbaja
Aug 14, 2009, 8:40 PM
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For safety reasons, the only way that I will use Triplex bolts is with the sleeve installed flush to the rock, not through the hanger. Use a 10mm hanger, and it can only be installed that way.
The Fixe-Spain website still shows the sleeve inserted through the hanger, facilitating easy removal. I was involved in discussions of the Triplex when it arrived on the USA market, including ASCA and FixeUSA. Our consensus was that the "hanger on top of the sleeve" (10mm hanger) would increase safety from pullout/tension loading if the nut loosened (which is a common occurrence).
Torque spec is 26 lb-ft (35 Nm).
(This post was edited by climbbaja on Aug 14, 2009, 8:51 PM)
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iching
Aug 15, 2009, 3:55 AM
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I've placed quite a few Triplex's. I agree with the last post, to place the sleeve flange flush with the rock. Nuts on both the Triplex's and and Wedges have a tendency to loosen up causing which has caused me to go back and applying locktight or epoxy to the treads and reset nuts.
On the Triplex's, I've been happy with a 12mm hole when I make a permanent placement. I use a 1/2 inch whole on temporary placements, to be followed up with a glue-in.
One problem I've had with the Triplex is in going back to a route to place chains and having the nut and shaft spin together so that I'm not able to unscrew the nut. The answer for this seems to be to carry something you can use to pry under the hanger to reset the cone as you unscrew the nut.
As far as the INOX stainless steel, WOW! I found a Fixe hanger that I had placed in '96 that had lichen growing on it, but neither bolt nor hanger has oxydized one bit.
(This post was edited by iching on Aug 15, 2009, 4:17 AM)
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charman
Aug 15, 2009, 5:04 AM
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climbbaja wrote: For safety reasons, the only way that I will use Triplex bolts is with the sleeve installed flush to the rock, not through the hanger. Use a 10mm hanger, and it can only be installed that way. The Fixe-Spain website still shows the sleeve inserted through the hanger, facilitating easy removal. I was involved in discussions of the Triplex when it arrived on the USA market, including ASCA and FixeUSA. Our consensus was that the "hanger on top of the sleeve" (10mm hanger) would increase safety from pullout/tension loading if the nut loosened (which is a common occurrence). Torque spec is 26 lb-ft (35 Nm).
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USnavy
Aug 15, 2009, 5:30 AM
Post #7 of 7
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majid_sabet wrote: Bolting should be done by experienced people who know what they are doing.
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