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Atoms of Space and Time ~Lee Smolin
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Partner rrrADAM


Nov 2, 2009, 1:44 PM
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Atoms of Space and Time ~Lee Smolin
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Not so light reading (but not so heavey either) for a Monday morn:
http://www.phys.lsu.edu/...lty/pullin/sciam.pdf


dan2see


Nov 4, 2009, 7:02 AM
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Re: [rrrADAM] Atoms of Space and Time ~Lee Smolin [In reply to]
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rrrADAM wrote:
Not so light reading (but not so heavey either) for a Monday morn:
http://www.phys.lsu.edu/...lty/pullin/sciam.pdf
Thanks for the link, I enjoyed reading the text.

Lee Smolin is my kind of guy: he's smart and an expert in String Theory and LQG, too.

He has more to say in his more recent book:
"The Trouble with Physics", Mariner Books, 2006.
Check out more comments

The biggest problem these modern theories have the shameful lack of experimental evidence. This is severely worse than Euclid's postulate about parallel lines. So the coming experiments from Large Hadron Collider are really severely needed.


Partner rrrADAM


Nov 4, 2009, 1:31 PM
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Re: [dan2see] Atoms of Space and Time ~Lee Smolin [In reply to]
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All of his popular books for were good:
-Three Roads To Quantum Gravity
-The Life of the Cosmos
-The Trouble With Physics



jt512


Nov 4, 2009, 6:28 PM
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Re: [dan2see] Atoms of Space and Time ~Lee Smolin [In reply to]
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dan2see wrote:
So the coming experiments from Large Hadron Collider are really severely needed.

Starting up a Large Hadron Collider is a tradition that physicists carry out every 14 billion years or so.

Jay


dan2see


Nov 4, 2009, 6:47 PM
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Re: [jt512] Atoms of Space and Time ~Lee Smolin [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
dan2see wrote:
So the coming experiments from Large Hadron Collider are really severely needed.

Starting up a Large Hadron Collider is a tradition that physicists carry out every 14 billion years or so.

Jay
Wink

In Engineering school, the final exam has only one test question:
Define "Universe", and demonstrate with two examples.


Partner j_ung


Nov 5, 2009, 3:02 PM
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Re: [jt512] Atoms of Space and Time ~Lee Smolin [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
dan2see wrote:
So the coming experiments from Large Hadron Collider are really severely needed.

Starting up a Large Hadron Collider is a tradition that physicists carry out every 14 billion years or so.

Jay

Watch them finally flip the switch on Dec 21, 2012. Laugh


dan2see


Nov 5, 2009, 3:56 PM
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Re: [j_ung] Atoms of Space and Time ~Lee Smolin [In reply to]
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j_ung wrote:
...Watch them finally flip the switch on Dec 21, 2012. Laugh

Ha ha it won't get me! I'll be comfortable, on my favorite peak, safe and aloof, surveying everything.


dan2see


Nov 8, 2009, 5:56 AM
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Re: [dan2see] Atoms of Space and Time ~Lee Smolin [In reply to]
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LHC, Feb 2009 wrote:
ATLAS Preparing for Collisions in Late-2009

The most recent schedule announced by CERN envisions beam in LHC in late November 2009. The first high-energy collisions (with a total energy of 7 TeV) will occur after mid-December. Later in 2010, the energy is expected to be taken towards 10 TeV. This is exciting news for ATLAS and the other experiments. It means that within a year’s horizon ATLAS will have substantial data allowing full physics analyses and even a possibility of new discoveries...

The new discoveries will probably be some clues about the energy threshold for the Higgs Boson, which will in turn explain the value of Gravity. And maybe even some measurements related to the frothiness of space-time.


dan2see


Nov 8, 2009, 6:15 AM
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Re: [dan2see] Atoms of Space and Time ~Lee Smolin [In reply to]
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More not-so-light reading:

Altas Factsheet is a 38-Mb pdf file.

It's a book about the ATLAS. Lots of colored pictures, lots of descriptions, and expected findings.


Partner rrrADAM


Nov 9, 2009, 5:14 PM
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Re: [dan2see] Atoms of Space and Time ~Lee Smolin [In reply to]
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My money is on NOT finding the Higgs Boson.

Why? Well, in a nutshell...

GR shows that matter/energy curve spacetime, and that curvature in turn makes matter/energy behave as if a force were working on it. We merely percieve this as a force. Therefore, how can we quantize something that isn't really a force, but is instead a product of spacetime itself?

As a friend of mine says, "Gravity is the racetrack, not the engine."


veganclimber


Nov 9, 2009, 5:33 PM
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Partner rrrADAM


Nov 9, 2009, 6:24 PM
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Re: [veganclimber] Atoms of Space and Time ~Lee Smolin [In reply to]
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I know, that's why I linked it. Wink

In fact, in the opening paragraphs, he states:
Lee Smolin wrote:
In his [Albert Einstein] theory,
the gravitational force arises as a consequence
of space and time (which together form “spacetime”)
being curved by the presence of matter.
A
loose analogy is that of a bowling ball
placed on a rubber sheet along with a
marble that is rolling around nearby. The
balls could represent the sun and the
earth, and the sheet is space. The bowling
ball creates a deep indentation in the rubber
sheet, and the slope of this indentation
causes the marble to be deflected toward
the larger ball, as if some force—gravity—
were pulling it in that direction.
Similarly,
any piece of matter or concentration of
energy distorts the geometry of spacetime,
causing other particles and light rays to be
deflected toward it, a phenomenon we
call gravity
.


...

Because general relativity deals in the geometry of
spacetime, a quantum theory of gravity
will in addition be a quantum theory of
spacetime
.


(This post was edited by rrrADAM on Nov 9, 2009, 6:50 PM)


dan2see


Nov 9, 2009, 6:45 PM
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Re: [rrrADAM] Atoms of Space and Time ~Lee Smolin [In reply to]
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You never "quantize a force". You quantize a force that's interacting with matter.

This is evidenced by electromagnetic radiation -- the value of a quantum of em energy is controlled by the electron orbital's configuration.

Gravity is different because it alters space-time, but it's still the particle that generates the graviton.

So what about the Higgs? I donno!


bill413


Nov 9, 2009, 6:49 PM
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Re: [rrrADAM] Atoms of Space and Time ~Lee Smolin [In reply to]
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rrrADAM wrote:
My money is on NOT finding the Higgs Boson.

Why? Well, in a nutshell...

GR shows that matter/energy curve spacetime, and that curvature in turn makes matter/energy behave as if a force were working on it. We merely percieve this as a force. Therefore, how can we quantize something that isn't really a force, but is instead a product of spacetime itself?

As a friend of mine says, "Gravity is the racetrack, not the engine."

What if the racetrack (space/time) itself is quantized. There are theories that postulate that there is a limit below which space cannot be regarded as a continuous "sheet." And, time is discreet in that it has no existence shorter than a change in the state of these patches of space.


Partner rrrADAM


Nov 9, 2009, 6:52 PM
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Re: [bill413] Atoms of Space and Time ~Lee Smolin [In reply to]
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bill413 wrote:
rrrADAM wrote:
My money is on NOT finding the Higgs Boson.

Why? Well, in a nutshell...

GR shows that matter/energy curve spacetime, and that curvature in turn makes matter/energy behave as if a force were working on it. We merely percieve this as a force. Therefore, how can we quantize something that isn't really a force, but is instead a product of spacetime itself?

As a friend of mine says, "Gravity is the racetrack, not the engine."

What if the racetrack (space/time) itself is quantized. There are theories that postulate that there is a limit below which space cannot be regarded as a continuous "sheet." And, time is discreet in that it has no existence shorter than a change in the state of these patches of space.
Did you read the article? This is eaxctly what Lee is saying.


Partner rrrADAM


Nov 9, 2009, 6:55 PM
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Re: [dan2see] Atoms of Space and Time ~Lee Smolin [In reply to]
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dan2see wrote:
You never "quantize a force". You quantize a force that's interacting with matter.

This is evidenced by electromagnetic radiation -- the value of a quantum of em energy is controlled by the electron orbital's configuration.
That's part of QED, but not all of it... Would you care to describe what is happening in the dual slit experiment involving light? As in this, we are dealing with photons interacting with photons (I.e., no matter involved, save the slits, but that would be difraction). Quantum entanglement (of photons) is another example.

As I am sure you are well aware, electrons are consentrations of localized energy, not hard little balls, just as quarks are, and QCD is a quantum theory of quarks. The quantization of these "forces" has to do with making particles (quanta) out of the force carriers, and we call these force carrying particles bosons. So, basically, we are talking about energy interacting with energy.

IMHO... Just as we needed to first understand what matter and energy was before we could quantize it, then develope a theory(s) (E.g., QED, QCD), we need to first understand what spacetime really is before we can develope a successful theory of quantum gravity.


(This post was edited by rrrADAM on Nov 9, 2009, 7:50 PM)


dan2see


Nov 10, 2009, 5:20 AM
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Re: [rrrADAM] Atoms of Space and Time ~Lee Smolin [In reply to]
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rrrADAM wrote:
...
IMHO... Just as we needed to first understand what matter and energy was before we could quantize it, then develope a theory(s) (E.g., QED, QCD), we need to first understand what spacetime really is before we can develope a successful theory of quantum gravity.

Yup.

I once had a web-page entitled, "What is Reality, Really?" and offered some conjectures. Things like dimensions, and electron orbitals, and fields. But my own view of reality was too classical -- and too old-fashioned.

It's fun to think about. But I felt I was doing what Euclid did when he defined the axioms. That is, it's easy to be logically correct. It's another thing entirely to know what's going on.


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