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altelis
Dec 22, 2009, 5:21 PM
Post #26 of 82
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marc801 wrote: sspssp wrote: If it is just one person in a nice enough looking van, a nice residential area (say next to a school or something so you aren't parking directly in front of a house). Wrong. An excellent way to get arrested. Especially that being near a school thing.
While i would stay away from schools, I can tell you for a FACT that it is PERFECTLY LEGAL to spend the night in your car in Washington, DC. As long as the car is parked legally, of course. Couldn't tell you about other city's but my guess is a lot of the "its definitely illegal" crowd don't know for sure, they are just guessing.
Seeing as the OP isn't look to dirtbag it and live outa the van around climbing areas but is instead looking to live in their van and attempt to live a quasi-normal life in a city/town I think that some of the advice given is not fully applicable. That, and some of the things are going to get OLD when applied solely to urban areas.
Is it doable? Sure
Is it worth it? Not convinced.
Some things we student's do to get by is rent 1 bedroom apt's with 2 people, and put up sheets or foamboard to divide off the living room as a bedroom. Rent is cheap and you only need to find 1 other person.
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Alpine07
Dec 22, 2009, 6:26 PM
Post #27 of 82
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patto wrote: byran wrote: Edited to say: Dugl's got some good advice, especially #12. Traveling around by yourself can get pretty lonesome. I've spent months in Yosemite and it was fine because I was constantly meeting new people and getting new climbing partners. Then I went to Wyoming and just ended up hiking around in the Tetons by myself. In less than a week I was really craving some social contact. Some folks are better at being alone than others though. I really found this to the case. Being a social person i struggled to enjoy hiking and travelling by myself for anymore than two days! Fourtunately I met loads of people most places i went.
Thats funny, I usually don't enjoy the first day or two of a solo trip, but the rest is awesome once I adjust to having no one else around.
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the_leech
Dec 22, 2009, 6:44 PM
Post #28 of 82
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dugl33 wrote: climbingnoise wrote: (necessary because I make very little money) You might qualify for federal food stamps if you truly make little money and have little money. I've heard its like a debit card these days so less embarrasment at checkout.  http://www.fns.usda.gov/FSP/
I heard that getting a better job or working extra hours is another good way to get money for food.
But why work when you can support your pathetic hippie lifestyle with a government handout?
Hey, I got a joke for you:
What do you call a guy over 20 years old who lives out of a van?
A loser.
It's only funny because it's true.
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roninthorne
Dec 22, 2009, 6:47 PM
Post #29 of 82
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Have lived out of a van on and off (now off) for many of the last 10 years, and loved almost every minute of it. It helped being close to a lot of open/public land (the Supes, Geo. Washington National Forest, The Sangre de Cristos/Rockies), and having a natural bent for writing, drawing, and bad weather photography. Being a dedicated loner and curmudgeon were also important survival traits for this kind of lifestyle. Also finding out that there are still little hippie chicks from the PNW and desert SW that dig this sort of lifestyle.... major bonus!
I was also blessed by meeting a lot of good folks who had done so before and getting a lot of beta from them. Of course, this was back when you could still homestead on Schnebley Hill Rd for weeks at a time, or park on the curve leading down to the Junk Yard for the same period without getting rousted by The Man... different world, now, post Patriot Act. I'd probably be in Gitmo as an enemy combatant or enemy of the State if I had started during the Dubya error... sorry, era.
Bears? DON'T COOK IN YER RIDE! Set up a tarp at least 15 feet away, store all food outside, and clean up with bleach whenever possible. A little curry or habenero powder around the doors and windows is also a plus.... unless you got immigrant bears...
Illegal? Yep, in many places. Hell, sleeping in rest areas (their original purpose) is now illegal in many of the states I used to traverse on my E-W passages to AZ and CO. Stay low-key, use Wal-Mart parking lots as much as possible, and install some padlocks on the inside of yer doors, where possible.
DON'T BUY A LAPTOP or other expensive (read"tempting to steal") gear! Use public libraries and college computer labs.. you pay for them with your taxes, and they are located in almost every town.
Buy bins to store yer stuff in, and label them, and stay organized. This is the worst part of living in tight quarters... you make a mess, it has nowhere to go!
Lots of good tips in this thread.... as with the rest of life, take what applies and forget the rest, understand that you will make mistakes, just be sure to learn from them, and to pass the lessons on.
Good luck, from the (formerly) Rovin' Ronin...
And Happy Holidays to all you RC.com forum folk...
[/ronin]
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roseraie
Dec 22, 2009, 7:21 PM
Post #30 of 82
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Don't experiment with bear safety in Yosemite... they WILL mess your car up. Put all your food and toiletries and scented stuff in a bear box, no matter where you're sleeping. Also... don't experiment with rangers either. If you're sleeping in your van anywhere but a drive-in campsite you have paid for, you will get a ticket.
WalMart allows you to sleep in their parking lots, I'm pretty sure it's an organization-wide policy.
Get a roof box on your van, and keep your rack, ropes, computer, wallet, passport, etc in it. Way less stressful than worrying about the van getting broken into all the time.
I'm about 99% sure it's illegal to sleep in a vehicle on Berkeley city streets. If you're a student or something, look very closely into the local laws before you commit to living out of a van while you're based in an urban area. Or find someone's driveway you can rent.
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dugl33
Dec 22, 2009, 7:34 PM
Post #31 of 82
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the_leech wrote: dugl33 wrote: climbingnoise wrote: (necessary because I make very little money) You might qualify for federal food stamps if you truly make little money and have little money. I've heard its like a debit card these days so less embarrasment at checkout. http://www.fns.usda.gov/FSP/I heard that getting a better job or working extra hours is another good way to get money for food. But why work when you can support your pathetic hippie lifestyle with a government handout? Hey, I got a joke for you: What do you call a guy over 20 years old who lives out of a van? A loser. It's only funny because it's true.
Well, you don't know the dude's situation, and neither do I. Where I live, $1000 + a month will get a person a humble one bdrm apt. In the Berkeley area its probably more. For the poor soul working minimum wage full time, or maybe part time as a student, the economics of life in Cali can be a bitch.
If you look at what it takes to qualify for such a thing as food stamps you gotta be living pretty thin - impossibly thin in California. I might have qualified back in college, and I was working 40 hrs a week in construction while going to school. Of course there was a social stigma to it, plus I knew nothing about it. The internet barely existed back then to so easily look into these things. I do know any little extra money would have helped as a self financed student.
So, obviously I don't know from your mystery profile but if you live in some part of the country where $500 a month will get you a two bedroom apartment with pool and carport, or mommy and daddy paid for your car and college bills and health insurance and gave you a gas card...and you went nice and smooth from your frat parties to making the big dollars with nice benis...
Hey, in some ways I agree with you. Lots of people out there trying to milk the system and that is wrong and immoral, but now and then its the system milking the people. I mentioned the possibility of food stamps because it was sounding like he was looking into living in a van due to the cost of rent and his economic situation, and not so much the "hit the road and live the dream" all climbers at heart fantasize about. I can't even get a fricken latte at starbucks without tripping over a half dozen down and out people in town. And at least 3 people a night go through the recycling out front for the 5 cents each they can get for cans and bottles.
Merry judgemental christmas. 
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Alpine07
Dec 22, 2009, 7:38 PM
Post #32 of 82
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the_leech wrote: dugl33 wrote: climbingnoise wrote: (necessary because I make very little money) You might qualify for federal food stamps if you truly make little money and have little money. I've heard its like a debit card these days so less embarrasment at checkout. http://www.fns.usda.gov/FSP/I heard that getting a better job or working extra hours is another good way to get money for food. But why work when you can support your pathetic hippie lifestyle with a government handout? Hey, I got a joke for you: What do you call a guy over 20 years old who lives out of a van? A loser. It's only funny because it's true.
I'm gonna go ahead and call you out on being a complete idiot.
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irregularpanda
Dec 23, 2009, 1:22 AM
Post #33 of 82
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dugl33 wrote: Oh, and carry at least catastrophic (high deductible) health insurance
I think all the advice you've given is strong, good advice. Except this bit.
Those Major Medical plans, also called catastrophic plans, are a terrible idea. Say for example your deductible is 10K. You get injured, and need care that costs over that much. By the end of your treatments, the insurance companies will find ways to make you pay much more than that, simply by nickel and diming you to death.
The irony of it is that if you are uninsured, hospitals will be able to give some pro bono care, but if you have insurance at all, even one of these shitty plans, they cannot qualify you for any alternative funding sources.
A decent insurance plan is the only way to go. That, or climb in Canada where ER visits are free.
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tradrenn
Dec 23, 2009, 1:49 AM
Post #34 of 82
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I can't help you with brakings into your car, but if you want your car not to be stolen, then find out it it has a "Main Relay" and put a switch on a ground wire, that will make your car virtually unstealable, it's what we call a "kill switch"
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dugl33
Dec 23, 2009, 2:34 AM
Post #35 of 82
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irregularpanda wrote: dugl33 wrote: Oh, and carry at least catastrophic (high deductible) health insurance I think all the advice you've given is strong, good advice. Except this bit. Those Major Medical plans, also called catastrophic plans, are a terrible idea. Say for example your deductible is 10K. You get injured, and need care that costs over that much. By the end of your treatments, the insurance companies will find ways to make you pay much more than that, simply by nickel and diming you to death. The irony of it is that if you are uninsured, hospitals will be able to give some pro bono care, but if you have insurance at all, even one of these shitty plans, they cannot qualify you for any alternative funding sources. A decent insurance plan is the only way to go. That, or climb in Canada where ER visits are free.
Well our health care system is a train wreck. The topic hits close to home for me as I paid for knee surgery 100% out of pocket, about $12k once all was said and done. I had money to cover it, but that one left a mark. And yes, I did pony up.
The thinking behind catastrophic is many people could beg, borrow, steal, or pay installments to settle say a 5k or 10k out of pocket max, but if they end up in the hospital from a car crash, say, and its $150k, no insurance, well forget it. You've got no options but bankruptcy.
I guess you really have to read the fine print to get anywhere near the truth. Is out of pocket max really that, or not? You're likely more up to speed on this than I am(?)
And of course things gets trickier if you have a healthy bank account or personal assets to protect, but your not so rich as to say, whats a hundred grand here or there. If you are really scraping by, then you're probably right, you might be better off with nothing at all. (setting aside personal responsibility questions, for the moment) I would posit though that a basic no frills policy for a youngish person isn't absurdly expensive, and could well be worth the money. A better plan? Hey, if you can swing it... Insurance companies, despite their flaws, pony up pretty quick for trauma type injuries. No way to argue that compound fracture you're sporting was a preexisting condition. 
My savvy canadian friends get travel insurance when they come south to the land of the free to be uninsured and the land of the free to be f-ed on medical costs.
Sigh.
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majid_sabet
Dec 23, 2009, 3:37 AM
Post #36 of 82
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funny how officers are taking notes while you boys are passing along your van living secrets.
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macblaze
Dec 23, 2009, 4:14 AM
Post #37 of 82
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Alpine07 wrote: the_leech wrote: dugl33 wrote: climbingnoise wrote: (necessary because I make very little money) You might qualify for federal food stamps if you truly make little money and have little money. I've heard its like a debit card these days so less embarrasment at checkout. http://www.fns.usda.gov/FSP/I heard that getting a better job or working extra hours is another good way to get money for food. But why work when you can support your pathetic hippie lifestyle with a government handout? Hey, I got a joke for you: What do you call a guy over 20 years old who lives out of a van? A loser. It's only funny because it's true. I'm gonna go ahead and call you out on being a complete idiot.
the_leech an idiot? I think not. He is a god among us and we should be grateful for his wisdom, grace and style...
And come on, ya gotta admit it was a bit funny...
[edited for spelling even though it's too late...]
(This post was edited by macblaze on Dec 23, 2009, 5:09 AM)
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the_leech
Dec 23, 2009, 4:57 AM
Post #38 of 82
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Alpine07 wrote: the_leech wrote: dugl33 wrote: climbingnoise wrote: (necessary because I make very little money) You might qualify for federal food stamps if you truly make little money and have little money. I've heard its like a debit card these days so less embarrasment at checkout. http://www.fns.usda.gov/FSP/I heard that getting a better job or working extra hours is another good way to get money for food. But why work when you can support your pathetic hippie lifestyle with a government handout? Hey, I got a joke for you: What do you call a guy over 20 years old who lives out of a van? A loser. It's only funny because it's true. I'm gonna go ahead and call you out on being a complete idiot.
U r so shmart!
"Idiot." Huh... Good one!
Must have taken you a while to think of that retort.
Anyway, I'm rubber and you're glue. Anything you say bounces off me and sticks to you.
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the_leech
Dec 23, 2009, 5:00 AM
Post #39 of 82
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dugl33 wrote: the_leech wrote: dugl33 wrote: climbingnoise wrote: (necessary because I make very little money) You might qualify for federal food stamps if you truly make little money and have little money. I've heard its like a debit card these days so less embarrasment at checkout. http://www.fns.usda.gov/FSP/I heard that getting a better job or working extra hours is another good way to get money for food. But why work when you can support your pathetic hippie lifestyle with a government handout? Hey, I got a joke for you: What do you call a guy over 20 years old who lives out of a van? A loser. It's only funny because it's true. Well, you don't know the dude's situation, and neither do I. Where I live, $1000 + a month will get a person a humble one bdrm apt. In the Berkeley area its probably more. For the poor soul working minimum wage full time, or maybe part time as a student, the economics of life in Cali can be a bitch. If you look at what it takes to qualify for such a thing as food stamps you gotta be living pretty thin - impossibly thin in California. I might have qualified back in college, and I was working 40 hrs a week in construction while going to school. Of course there was a social stigma to it, plus I knew nothing about it. The internet barely existed back then to so easily look into these things. I do know any little extra money would have helped as a self financed student. So, obviously I don't know from your mystery profile but if you live in some part of the country where $500 a month will get you a two bedroom apartment with pool and carport, or mommy and daddy paid for your car and college bills and health insurance and gave you a gas card...and you went nice and smooth from your frat parties to making the big dollars with nice benis... Hey, in some ways I agree with you. Lots of people out there trying to milk the system and that is wrong and immoral, but now and then its the system milking the people. I mentioned the possibility of food stamps because it was sounding like he was looking into living in a van due to the cost of rent and his economic situation, and not so much the "hit the road and live the dream" all climbers at heart fantasize about. I can't even get a fricken latte at starbucks without tripping over a half dozen down and out people in town. And at least 3 people a night go through the recycling out front for the 5 cents each they can get for cans and bottles. Merry judgemental christmas.
Lots of words you wrote there.
I didn't think you needed to be so literate just to apply for food stamps.
p.s. There's only one "e" in judgmental.
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the_leech
Dec 23, 2009, 5:02 AM
Post #40 of 82
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macblaze wrote: the_leech an idiotic? I think not. He is a god among us and we should be grateful for his wisdom, grace and style...
Damn straight.
And I've never lived in a van either!
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Alpine07
Dec 23, 2009, 5:43 AM
Post #42 of 82
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the_leech wrote: Alpine07 wrote: the_leech wrote: dugl33 wrote: climbingnoise wrote: (necessary because I make very little money) You might qualify for federal food stamps if you truly make little money and have little money. I've heard its like a debit card these days so less embarrasment at checkout. http://www.fns.usda.gov/FSP/I heard that getting a better job or working extra hours is another good way to get money for food. But why work when you can support your pathetic hippie lifestyle with a government handout? Hey, I got a joke for you: What do you call a guy over 20 years old who lives out of a van? A loser. It's only funny because it's true. I'm gonna go ahead and call you out on being a complete idiot. U r so shmart! "Idiot." Huh... Good one! Must have taken you a while to think of that retort. Anyway, I'm rubber and you're glue. Anything you say bounces off me and sticks to you.
Thank you!
Yep, I though it was a good one for sure.
Nope, didn't take too long actually.
Yes, I'm rubber and you're glue. You are absolutely right. Glad we got that cleared up.
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the_leech
Dec 23, 2009, 5:50 AM
Post #43 of 82
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dugl33 wrote: the_leech wrote: p.s. There's only one "e" in judgmental. That was bait, and you gobbled it right up.
Don't lie. It makes you look desperate.
You just can't spell. That's ok. Most people here can't.
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dugl33
Dec 23, 2009, 6:03 AM
Post #44 of 82
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the_leech wrote: dugl33 wrote: the_leech wrote: p.s. There's only one "e" in judgmental. That was bait, and you gobbled it right up. Don't lie. It makes you look desperate. You just can't spell. That's ok. Most people here can't.
::yawn::
Is that your best effort? And what was this thread even about? I've forgotten.
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happiegrrrl
Dec 23, 2009, 3:07 PM
Post #45 of 82
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dugl33 wrote: ...And what was this thread even about? I've forgotten.
Being judgmental, of course. The same thing more than 90% of rc.com threads seem to be about....
To the OP - if money is so tight, a van(any vehicle) as abode might not be the best option. At least if you want one with mobility.....
Insurance, maintenance, and think about emergency repairs, which are sure to happen. When it breaks down and you have to find the money to fix and don't yet have - you're sort of stuck. And there must be some corollary, somewhere, that shows that vehicles never - ever - break down in the free camping area of a fantastic climbing destination.....
Good luck to you. I know that if I didn't have my rent stabilized apartment, there is no way I would be able to live in NYC. Not that I really want to stay here all that much, but it's where I am. And hell no, I will NOT get a *better* job in order to do so.... Life is but a dream; why turn it into a nightmare by cramming myself into a cubicle? Blechhhhh
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lhwang
Dec 23, 2009, 3:24 PM
Post #46 of 82
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irregularpanda wrote: That, or climb in Canada where ER visits are free.
No. Most Canadian ERs will charge you up front if you're from out of country.
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sspssp
Dec 24, 2009, 9:53 PM
Post #47 of 82
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marc801 wrote: sspssp wrote: If it is just one person in a nice enough looking van, a nice residential area (say next to a school or something so you aren't parking directly in front of a house). Wrong. An excellent way to get arrested. Especially that being near a school thing.
I've parked next to high school fields and not had a problem. Obviously parking next to a grade school and being there when the parents are showing up would be a bad idea.
I should have said open area like a park, instead of a school. My bad.
There are lots of cities where overnight camping is illegal and I've sleeped in my van in plenty of them without a problem. I show up late ready to sleep (no lights) and get up very early and leave.
Your mileage may vary.
(This post was edited by sspssp on Dec 24, 2009, 9:55 PM)
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shockabuku
Dec 25, 2009, 12:20 AM
Post #48 of 82
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sspssp wrote: marc801 wrote: sspssp wrote: If it is just one person in a nice enough looking van, a nice residential area (say next to a school or something so you aren't parking directly in front of a house). Wrong. An excellent way to get arrested. Especially that being near a school thing. I've parked next to high school fields and not had a problem. Obviously parking next to a grade school and being there when the parents are showing up would be a bad idea. I should have said open area like a park, instead of a school. My bad. There are lots of cities where overnight camping is illegal and I've sleeped in my van in plenty of them without a problem. I show up late ready to sleep (no lights) and get up very early and leave. Your mileage may vary.
Masterful.
Sleeped in my van. Not so much. But it made me laugh. Thanks.
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climbingnoise
Dec 25, 2009, 12:43 AM
Post #49 of 82
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thanks for the tips all.
One thing I was just thinkin.. is I would probably start to feel pretty bored at night. Wouldnt be able to do much in a van for the long night hours, and 10 hours a day in a coffee shop could get rough, if that was going to be my office. hmmm how did other vansters deal with long lonely nights in the van?
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coastal_climber
Dec 25, 2009, 12:51 AM
Post #50 of 82
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Your LEFT hand.
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