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tmplcrg
Dec 18, 2009, 2:12 AM
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Hi everyone,
I'm hoping someone can offer some information on this. I'm living in Japan for a year, and I've met some folks who want to do some alpine and ice climbing around here. They are requesting that I have evacuation insurance. I'd say this is pretty wise. However, I have no idea how to get this over here and my friends who have it don't think they will offer coverage to non-Japanese people (they're asking about it). Does anyone happen to know of a company/org that would offer climbing insurance to a foreigner in Japan? What is a US company/org that would offer the same thing? Some Canadian climbing friends of mine have something called 'Travel Underwriters' (only for Canadians). Is there such a service in the US?
I will appreciate ANY information about this.
Thanks!
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bill_in_tokyo
Dec 18, 2009, 3:18 AM
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I reposted your question over on http://outdoorjapanforums.com/...a=Y&s=5391062951.
I've heard things about rescue insurance for Japan before, but never got around to following up. Hopefully someone over there will know something. I'll also ask around among my climbing acquaintances.
I'm actually interested for myself, as well (although I'm a pure rock climber, not any kind of mountaineer), so if you find out anything through your friends, please let me know.
Happy climbing.
- Bill
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kheegster
Dec 18, 2009, 5:13 AM
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No idea if this is what you're looking for, but check out Global Rescue (globalrescue.com). AAC membership comes with part of this service.
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tmplcrg
Dec 18, 2009, 12:45 PM
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Thanks for forwarding it there. I didn't know there was a forum for climbing in Japan.
I'm definitely not an alpinist or anything. We're talking about very moderate climbs. In any event my friend wants everyone to have the insurance. I naively thought that if, say two people need a rescue, and one has insurance but the other doesn't, the one WITH insurance pays whatever was agreed upon in the contract, irregardless of the other. They tell me that's not the case here and that if one of the party doesn't have insurance the fee is higher for everyone.
I'm not sure how good your Japanese is, but I found some info from the Alpine Guide Society of Japan:
http://www.agsj.org/hoken/
I can't read this without Google, and I can't tell if this is something a foreigner can acquire. I forwarded this to my friend and I'll let you know if it is a possibility.
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tmplcrg
Dec 18, 2009, 12:49 PM
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kheegster,
Thanks...I just found this. This may be what I am looking for.
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bill_in_tokyo
Dec 19, 2009, 11:19 PM
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tmplcrg wrote: I'm not sure how good your Japanese is, but I found some info from the Alpine Guide Society of Japan: http://www.agsj.org/hoken/
I thrash around as badly in Japanese as I do on rock, but what I can get out of that seems to indicate that it's insurance FOR guides, which includes coverage for both them and their clients. Doesn't look to me as if it's available for the common herd. I'll be interested to hear what your friend has to say about it.
I'm an AAC member, so I have the rescue insurance that comes with that, but I have some doubt as to whether it would work in Japan. This is especially true because my understanding of the AAC insurance is that it basically requires that you call the rescue coordinator's number if you need a rescue and let THEM coordinate it for you. If you just pick up your cell phone and dial 119 (Japan's 911), you may end up voiding your coverage. (If anyone knows more about this and confirm or deny, I'd appreciate it...)
In any case, worth checking in more detail before you rely on it fully.
Edited to add: Also, that outdoor japan forum is usually dead as a doornail, so I don't hold out too much hope for the post over there. Usually the only one who tries to provide climbing info. on there is me...
- Bill
(This post was edited by bill_in_tokyo on Dec 19, 2009, 11:22 PM)
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majid_sabet
Dec 20, 2009, 2:04 AM
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Rescue in japan is little different. I have heard that they only conduct searches for a day if someone becomes lost or overdue so keep that in mind.
Last time some American climber/hiker got lost and they had to send a team from US to look for the missing guy cause Japanese did not want to search.
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bill_in_tokyo
Dec 21, 2009, 1:28 AM
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I'm not sure where Majid's information comes from, but it's certainly possible he's correct. The various mountain rescue incidents that I know about through friends, or that I've seen reported in the news, seem to show a substantially higher level of effort by the locals than his report suggests. On the other hand, they've generally involved Japanese victims, who presumably are more likely to be locally insured and locally connected. In Japan, this is likely to be a significant factor.
In any case, there was a response over on the other forum with a pretty good link to a backcountry ski discussion here: http://www.poachninja.com/...snow-forum/insurance It lists a bunch of local insurance possibilities, but I haven't dug into the costs or the fine print at all yet.
- Bill
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majid_sabet
Dec 21, 2009, 1:56 AM
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bill_in_tokyo wrote: I'm not sure where Majid's information comes from, but it's certainly possible he's correct. The various mountain rescue incidents that I know about through friends, or that I've seen reported in the news, seem to show a substantially higher level of effort by the locals than his report suggests. On the other hand, they've generally involved Japanese victims, who presumably are more likely to be locally insured and locally connected. In Japan, this is likely to be a significant factor. In any case, there was a response over on the other forum with a pretty good link to a backcountry ski discussion here: http://www.poachninja.com/...snow-forum/insurance It lists a bunch of local insurance possibilities, but I haven't dug into the costs or the fine print at all yet. - Bill
My info came from a reliable local rescue team in California which they went there to look for a missing American so I pretty sure its accurate however, i like to know if there are certain conditions were Japanese may provide difference services for locals and provide minimum for others.
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bill_in_tokyo
Dec 21, 2009, 3:01 AM
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majid_sabet wrote: i like to know if there are certain conditions were Japanese may provide difference services for locals and provide minimum for others.
I'm sure that if you were to inquire directly of any Japanese person (whether among the public, in the police or in any of the affiliated rescue services) as to whether locals receive preferential treatment, it would be strenuously denied. Furthermore, I have no specific evidence whatsoever that suggests that this might be the case.
My own experience in Japan has not included any situation in which I have had any problem with Japanese government officials or other service providers.
However, a substantial amount of anecdotal evidence in Japan's English language press, as well as in stories from non-Japanese friends, suggests that Japanese officialdom is rarely as solicitious of the needs and protection of non-Japanese as it is of Japanese. I have also heard, but cannot confirm, that Japanese rescue services may in fact actively refuse to undertake rescue for persons who are not insured.
If I find out more, I'll let you know. I have a couple of genuine mountaineering friends (as opposed to crag weenies like me), who may have more information.
- Bill
(This post was edited by bill_in_tokyo on Dec 21, 2009, 3:02 AM)
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asiaclimber
Dec 21, 2009, 3:35 AM
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I would have to say it is the same across the board considering one of my local climbing areas was shut down after two Gai-Jin were egressed from the area via helicopter after a bad fall at a sport crag about a month ago. It's only about a 15 minute in hike to this place form the road by the way.
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bill_in_tokyo
Dec 21, 2009, 4:00 AM
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Hey asiaclimber,
I haven't heard about this. Details, please?
- Bill
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tmplcrg
Dec 25, 2009, 6:15 PM
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I'm curious too. Which climbing area was it?
So, I finally found some information that may be useful. Supposedly this place offers insurance that a foreigner can sign up for. Its 5000 yen /year and as far as I can tell will sufficiently cover a rescue.
http://www.nihiho.co.jp/
Google-san didn't produce a very good translation of this, but my Japanese climbing partner tells me it will work out. My plan is to AVOID having to test it.
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guangzhou
Dec 26, 2009, 1:04 AM
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asiaclimber wrote: I would have to say it is the same across the board considering one of my local climbing areas was shut down after two Gai-Jin were egressed from the area via helicopter after a bad fall at a sport crag about a month ago. It's only about a 15 minute in hike to this place form the road by the way.
Very Curious too.
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asiaclimber
Dec 27, 2009, 11:15 AM
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The climbing area was Kawamata. I haven't been to my gym in a while so haven't been able to get the info yet. I will post as soon as i know
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bill_in_tokyo
Dec 28, 2009, 7:00 AM
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Whoa - Kawamata is closed? I don't climb there much (only been a couple of times, actually), but I know a number of folks who like it a lot.
Interested in any updates you can come up with.
I'm nursing a bad elbow right now, but when I get back to the gym or outside I'll ask around as well.
- Bill
Edited to add: tmplcrg, thanks for the insurance link, it looks pretty good, based on what I can decipher. I'm going to unleash my wife on it, to see what a native-speaker can pick up that I've missed.
(This post was edited by bill_in_tokyo on Dec 28, 2009, 7:18 AM)
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bill_in_tokyo
Jan 6, 2010, 2:55 AM
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I'll follow up on this just to say that I got my wife to look through it, and she couldn't spot anything that didn't look legit. I haven't yet made an application, but I'm contemplating it.
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technogeekery
Jan 15, 2010, 2:54 AM
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Bill, I'm interested in this too, so if you could let us know what your investigations uncover, I'd probably sign up too.
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technogeekery
Jan 20, 2010, 1:06 AM
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I got some people at work to help me with the NIHON HIYO HOSHO insurance offer. Here are some of their comments:
The website says that this company originally started as mutual aid system among climing club members based in Nagano Pref, and then they incorporated an insurance company to provide simple insurance that covers search & rescue cost only.
The company is registered with Kanto Local Finance Bureau as a Small Amount & Short Term Insurance Company and they are introduced by various media as a company providing unique insurance specializing in rescue and search.
Looks like really small company, but looks ok. They cover all the cost incurred in connection with search and rescue activities when the police acknowledged that it was an "accident" and the search and rescue of the insured took place within Japan (other than marine accident).
They DO NOT cover: death, hospitalization, outpatient visits, responsibility for compensation, etc.
They cover accidents during general outdoor activities (other than marine activities) such as mountain & rock climbing, hiking, skiing, snowboarding, mountain stream fishing, photography, wild plant collecting, and others.
The covered cost includes:
- Personnel cost: cost of people who engage in rescue and search activities
- Property cost: equipment, insurance, transportation, food cost, etc.
- All cost related to helicopter operation
Examples of accidents:
When you got rescued due to injury, sickness, accident, fatigue/weakness, getting lost and missing, change of whether, etc.
Maximum insurance coverage: JPY3,000,000 (deductible JPY30,000)
Annual insurance cost is JPY5,000.
- Even when you are rescued as a group (together with friends or families etc.), the insurance covers insured person only.
Each person needs to be insured.
- Foreigners living in Japan can buy this insurance and you don't need to be a member of any climibing associations.
- As to the application process, at first you will pay the annual insurance premium at post office or Japan Post Bank by wire transfer, and then they will mail you an application confirmation form.
You will confirm the details of the form and return it to them, and then they will mail you the insurance policy
So it looks like a useful addition to medical/accident cover if you are into back-country sports in Japan. You may need some help in getting / completing the application form if you don't read Japanese, but the application process seems simple enough.
Hope that helps
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bill_in_tokyo
Jan 20, 2010, 2:34 AM
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Thanks, mate.
Your description of the coverage matches what I was able to glean from the site, as confirmed by my wife.
I hadn't yet gotten around to studying the application process, so your info. really helps.
- Bill
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