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a-dog
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Dec 16, 2002, 5:33 AM
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Anyone have any thoughts about the new Black Diamond vipers? Looking for some good tools for ice and technical alpine use. I would appreciate any comments or thoughts.
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tradklime
Dec 18, 2002, 4:07 AM
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I haven't climbed with them yet, but they look like a good tool for steep ice and mixed, and of course they have BD picks which are very good.
I think there are better tools for alpine applications. I climb on Stanley Alpine Mantas (www.sopgear.com). For common brands look at the new grivels and the BD Rages would be good with the finger guard cut off.
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bpullan
Dec 18, 2002, 4:50 AM
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You know it and i know it...........DMM FLYs are the only great tool, cheap, good clearence and look at the name.......i live by em!
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coconutz
Dec 18, 2002, 5:29 AM
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the viper is a good tool for hooking and and S-T-E-E-P stuff. It is light, lighter than the cobra. This helps with being able accuartly swing the tool in tight places and helps with control for hooking and thin ice. Even though it is light it is well balanced and most of it's "omph" is located in the head. It does however have some WICKED clerance good for steep ice and mixed, not so good for alpne.
If you hunting the best all around too, get the Cobra. Not as much clearance as the viper but then again it climbs everthing well from AI3 to WI6 and M1-MHARD. Balnced well and has more weight than the viper. I don't feel that you have to swing as hard with it to sink it really well, could be me. I also hear that next year they are going to have a Fang attachment for the Cobra, you would then have a carbon/viper looking tool. You can also do what I have done and seen done to you Cobra. Buy a pair of BD ice clippers (those plastic things), remove the wire gates and cut that puppy off at the top of the spine. Fasten it to the end of the axe with a hose clamp so that the screw part it opposite your palm, you can move your fingers around to compinsate for the screw. Next take the hammer part off the one side and use a regular hex nut that matches the thread depth of the bolt holding the pick on, and you need to crank those mothers down really frekin' tight, get out the cheater bar. And last wrap the tool all the way to the head with that stick ass hockey tape. Now you have a tool that is as light as the viper and you are ready to rip on M10s. Plus this is temporary, you can put the hammer back on and take the ice clipper off and use it as you normally would.
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adeptus
Dec 18, 2002, 5:40 PM
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I am also looking for a set of all-round ice tools that I can use all winter on water ice and then in the alps next summer.
I have been thinking about the following axes:
DMM - The Fly
Charlet Moser - Axar
Grivel - Alp Wing
BD - Rage
BD - Cobra
Has anybody tried some of these axes? If so could you please give a comment on how they feel and if they are good for all-round use.
Thanks
[ This Message was edited by: adeptus on 2002-12-18 10:46 ]
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brianthew
Dec 18, 2002, 6:18 PM
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I've a bit of experience with the BD Rage. It's sort of standard tool; there are tools with more clearence and tools that are lighter, but I find it's a great all-round tool and a good value. The pick is the same as the Cobra, and the brand is Black Diamond so you'll have no problems getting replacement parts and picks. I've never used the Rage in an alpine setting; my understanding is that the pommel on the bottom can inhibit plunging but it seems that if you really wanted to you could just saw the thing off. I've had friends say that other tools like the Axar are better for alpine use, and I don't disagree.
Bottom line: Great tool for general use, price is right.
[ This Message was edited by: brianthew on 2002-12-18 10:20 ]
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