I like the old metolious maroon and dark blue cams, they're big, and light, kinda like to walk, but not too much more than other big cams, and the the big yellow tri-cam is pretty sweet and light, just be careful about which way the stinger points when it's hanging on your harness.
In terms of range, there isn't a whole lot of difference between the 5-6 C4s and the 5-6 Friends. The friends are much, MUCH stiffer though, so they're harder to slide with you. On the other hand, you can kick them without causing too much harm to the placement, unlike the camalots. That said, the #6 friend is no longer on the market, so you're kind of limited in what you can get now.
I own both friends and camalots in those sizes, and a few big bros too. The bros are very specialized, difficult to place, and not terribly confidence inspiring.
And if you honestly think that a #7 tricam (which I own) is at all a replacement for friends or camalots in that size (which is about an old style #4 camalot), then you clearly do not climb any cracks that stay that size for longer than 6 inches. The narrow cam profile, coupled with the stinger make for an incredibly unstable placement, one that led Craig Luebben to invent the big bro, which is hardly known for its own stability.
well, valley giants arent really available, and they're bigger than the #6 C4 anyway...although id love to get my paws on a couple....
bros are super specialized and not so useful alot of the time.
between WC and BD- BD, the WC have never inspired confidence for me. dunno why, but thats just how i feel about them.
VGs are available. Just got a NIB #9 last week. They're just not available on really short notice.
Bro's need fairly parallel sided cracks to be really solid. Think Moab. They work elsewhere but are harder to get in.
WC and BD are about the same size but go BD. The WC #6 always seemed to like to have it's cams tip out on me. Either the rope rubbing the cams or just all the thrutching in there. The #6 BD C4 doesn't have this issue even though it's springs are weaker than the WC.
Yep, I have to go with home made as well. A big home made cam will be my next project. Making your own costs hardly anything and works great.
I put at least $200 into this one, but that included a swager, machinists vise, big drill bit set, and enough materials for several large cams, should I feel like making any more, and a bunch of time jigsawing and filing. It is totally worth it though.
Well, I have the yellow one (given me for a specific climb) and a Camalot #4 - very old style. I agree with petsfed about the tricam - specialized, tippy. But, when you get to that second place where you want a large pice, and the camalots have been used, well...it's there.
And Big Bros require a lot of experience to place well in all sorts of real world conditions (what doesn't). Still nice though.
Petsfed, do you know why the #6 friend is no longer available? Always wanted to get my hands on one of those.
I have a variety of big pro. #4 solid stem friend, #5 tech friend, #4 camalot (C4), #10 metolius, and #5 camalot (old style).
My vote is for tech friends. I like their stiff trigger action. Seems to help them stay in the crack better which is nice when you're thrashing around right next to it. The old #5 camalot (mean green) is probably the least confidence inspiring piece I have. The lobes aren't spread apart very far so it kind of wants to tip over when placed, especially towards the end of its range. It also has weak spring action so it doesn't want to stay put in the crack very well. That being said I took the scariest fall of my life on it when it was nearly tipped out and it held.
Guys who are really climbing the Wyde like the Technical Friends over the Camalots. I've never seen the reverse. In the store, the BD's feel smoother and better.
Realistically, your poll should be the WC vs the BDs. There is no cam sized like a Valley Giant so they have no competition, and the Bros are a specialized piece that a person who prefers the WC cams would still carry in the wyde as they are light, have great range -better than any cam, and can be left behind for pro as you walk the big cam of choice up the crack.
Yep, I have to go with home made as well. A big home made cam will be my next project. Making your own costs hardly anything and works great.
I put at least $200 into this one, but that included a swager, machinists vise, big drill bit set, and enough materials for several large cams, should I feel like making any more, and a bunch of time jigsawing and filing. It is totally worth it though.
I guess I don't consider tools as part of the cam's cost, one, because you can use them for other things, and two, because I already have everything I need.
As far as materials, you can easily make a large cam for $30 - $40.
Petsfed, do you know why the #6 friend is no longer available? Always wanted to get my hands on one of those.
I'm fairly certain its just simple economics. BD sold enough of their other cams to subsidize the jolly green giant, so they were able to keep the price low. WC, meanwhile, always played second fiddle to BD, so the #6 friend ended up costing about $30 more. To be sure, when BD had their old size range, it was practical to own a few sets of both brands. But now that the #4, 5, & 6 cams are basically identical in size and range, Wild Country lost a major market. More's the pity, too, since the old style #4 camalot was a brilliant size that is now basically impossible to protect.
For those of you who aren't aware, the usable range of a cam is often much smaller than the published range. Look at Metolius' range finder system for a good illustration of this. In any event, who really wants to be forced to climb butterfly stacks (and too small for knee locks) over a series of tipped out #4 c4s?
In about a month, I'll have the means to start buying, but does anybody have any old-style #4 camalots they want to sell? The purple, single stem jobs?
Having taken the old #4 Camalot and the #5 Tech friend on routes side by side, the Tech Friend wins hands down. Tghe Camalot has wimpy springs and walks horribly, even with really good slingage on it. The tech friend stood fast, right where I placed it. Night and day better.
The WC catalog only lists Technical Friends up to #4. Their site also says the range is from 00 to 4. I'm afraid the #6 Tech Friend is not the only one that was discontinued, though the #5 is still relatively easy to find.
Actually, the bigger tech friends aren't being made because the source of the raw materials gave wc a psychotically high price hike, making it not viable to produce.
With the new helium friends and production method (forging), expect to see helium 5 and 6 cams within a year or two.
It's a shame that the Rock Empire cams aren't available anymore. I have the largest three pulsar cams, and they roughly equate to bd 3, 4, and 5's. It would have been nice if they made a 6 equivalent because they were roughly half the price.
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