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jakedatc
Aug 12, 2010, 5:49 PM
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ncrockclimber wrote: I hope that Aric continues to contribute to this site as a user; I have enjoyed reading some of his posts. However, I am also glad that he is no longer in a role that gave him access to power (small though it was) that he was obviously incapable of using.
Don't hold your breath.. he's had enough.
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curt
Aug 12, 2010, 6:00 PM
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jakedatc wrote: ncrockclimber wrote: I hope that Aric continues to contribute to this site as a user; I have enjoyed reading some of his posts. However, I am also glad that he is no longer in a role that gave him access to power (small though it was) that he was obviously incapable of using. Don't hold your breath.. he's had enough.
Well, that would be unfortunate, but it's clearly up to him.
curt
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johnwesely
Aug 12, 2010, 6:18 PM
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curt wrote: jakedatc wrote: ncrockclimber wrote: I hope that Aric continues to contribute to this site as a user; I have enjoyed reading some of his posts. However, I am also glad that he is no longer in a role that gave him access to power (small though it was) that he was obviously incapable of using. Don't hold your breath.. he's had enough. Well, that would be unfortunate, but it's clearly up to him. curt
According to his FB, he going to remove all of his content as well.
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carabiner96
Aug 12, 2010, 6:35 PM
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johnwesely wrote: curt wrote: jakedatc wrote: ncrockclimber wrote: I hope that Aric continues to contribute to this site as a user; I have enjoyed reading some of his posts. However, I am also glad that he is no longer in a role that gave him access to power (small though it was) that he was obviously incapable of using. Don't hold your breath.. he's had enough. Well, that would be unfortunate, but it's clearly up to him. curt According to his FB, he going to remove all of his content as well.
Can't say I blame him.
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jt512
Aug 12, 2010, 6:43 PM
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carabiner96 wrote: johnwesely wrote: curt wrote: jakedatc wrote: ncrockclimber wrote: I hope that Aric continues to contribute to this site as a user; I have enjoyed reading some of his posts. However, I am also glad that he is no longer in a role that gave him access to power (small though it was) that he was obviously incapable of using. Don't hold your breath.. he's had enough. Well, that would be unfortunate, but it's clearly up to him. curt According to his FB, he going to remove all of his content as well. Can't say I blame him.
Are you kidding?
Jay
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adatesman
Aug 12, 2010, 6:46 PM
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Is that really all that surprising, John? A lot of my content (especially in The Lab) generates questions well after the fact and I don't care to either do the ongoing maintenance of answering them or having others speculate on the how/why I did/said something. I put a lot of work into that stuff and do not want to be in the position where someone misunderstands something and proceeds to get hurt on account of it. So not quite a 'take my ball and going home' sort of thing, but I can see how some may see it that way.
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carabiner96
Aug 12, 2010, 6:47 PM
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jt512 wrote: carabiner96 wrote: johnwesely wrote: curt wrote: jakedatc wrote: ncrockclimber wrote: I hope that Aric continues to contribute to this site as a user; I have enjoyed reading some of his posts. However, I am also glad that he is no longer in a role that gave him access to power (small though it was) that he was obviously incapable of using. Don't hold your breath.. he's had enough. Well, that would be unfortunate, but it's clearly up to him. curt According to his FB, he going to remove all of his content as well. Can't say I blame him. Are you kidding? Jay
Nope.
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johnwesely
Aug 12, 2010, 6:48 PM
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adatesman wrote: Is that really all that surprising, John? A lot of my content (especially in The Lab) generates questions well after the fact and I don't care to either do the ongoing maintenance of answering them or having others speculate on the how/why I did/said something. I put a lot of work into that stuff and do not want to be in the position where someone misunderstands something and proceeds to get hurt on account of it. So not quite a 'take my ball and going home' sort of thing, but I can see how some may see it that way.
I am not really surprised. It is your content, and you should do what you want with it.
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jt512
Aug 12, 2010, 6:54 PM
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carabiner96 wrote: jt512 wrote: carabiner96 wrote: johnwesely wrote: curt wrote: jakedatc wrote: ncrockclimber wrote: I hope that Aric continues to contribute to this site as a user; I have enjoyed reading some of his posts. However, I am also glad that he is no longer in a role that gave him access to power (small though it was) that he was obviously incapable of using. Don't hold your breath.. he's had enough. Well, that would be unfortunate, but it's clearly up to him. curt According to his FB, he going to remove all of his content as well. Can't say I blame him. Are you kidding? Jay Nope.
Hard to fathom your thinking. The site really can't allow its moderators to have meltdowns and dish out verbal abuse to users. Aric has had several. This was overdue.
Aric seems to have difficulty perceiving when he's wrong, so he probably feels victimized. Regardless, deleting all your posts is pretty immature behavior.
Jay
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adatesman
Aug 12, 2010, 6:55 PM
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Thanks for understanding, John (and Mo).
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adatesman
Aug 12, 2010, 6:59 PM
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Jay, I do believe DDT said to back off. I'm leaving and there's no particular reason to continue throwing abuse my way.
(This post was edited by adatesman on Aug 12, 2010, 7:03 PM)
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jt512
Aug 12, 2010, 7:08 PM
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adatesman wrote: Jay, I do believe DDT said to back off. I'm leaving and there's no particular reason to continue throwing abuse my way.
Again you accuse me of "abusing" you, when I haven't!
Jay
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adatesman
Aug 12, 2010, 8:20 PM
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Seriously Daniel, at what point does this become harassment?
For the record, this is exactly the kind of crap that has me leaving RC. Why they allow it to continue is beyond me, but apparently they have their reasons.
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boymeetsrock
Aug 12, 2010, 8:42 PM
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dr_feelgood wrote: Congratulations, douchebags! Driving away the people who provide content in favor of the egos of a few.
Was this directed at the mods or at Curt and jt512? Equally applicable I suppose.
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spikeddem
Aug 12, 2010, 8:43 PM
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adatesman wrote: Seriously Daniel, at what point does this become harassment? For the record, this is exactly the kind of crap that has me leaving RC. Why they allow it to continue is beyond me, but apparently they have their reasons.
You're baiting Curt and Jay no differently than you bait USNavy.
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curt
Aug 12, 2010, 10:21 PM
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adatesman wrote: Jay, I do believe DDT said to back off. I'm leaving and there's no particular reason to continue throwing abuse my way.
Aric,
You really ought to step back, take a deep breath and think about this for awhile. Nobody wants you to leave the site. Many individuals like jt512, rrradam, roughster, reno and myself (just to name a few) have either voluntarily resigned as mods, been asked to resign as mods, or have been removed from their positions as mods--and have still remained here as regular contributors to the site. It's actually much less stressful and a lot more fun.
Curt
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adatesman
Aug 12, 2010, 11:11 PM
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Sorry Curt, but I simply have no interest in that. This was one too many clashes with JT, one too many 1starred posts thanks to USN, one too many undeserved broadsides over trivial matters. It isn't just the modding thing; I'm actually quite tired of all the drama and egos on RC. This fiasco so close on the heels of the MPNA thread fiasco simply pushed it over the edge when combined with the backdrop of USNavy harassing me on Facebook and then here on RC for the past month or so (this is the reason I started picking on him... I got tired of the endless stream of messages berating me for breaking an ankle on a 5.6, how I'm old enough to be his dad, etc followed by him deciding all of my posts going back a year or so deserve 1star). As I said, too much drama.
Something has changed in the past year or so and not only has the signal:noise ratio fallen to SummitPost levels the community spirit is gone. RC is currently rudderless IMO, which is leading to a lot of ugly and very little worthwhile content. Personally I blame that partly on the abrasive attitude of some users rubbing off on others (I'm not singling out JT here BTW, there's others as well), but also due to the fact that I don't think RC has recovered yet from Blue's departure. He had a vision for what he wanted to do with the site, others bought in to that vision and it brought the community together.
As for the removal of what I've contributed over the years, I'd be lying if I didn't say that at least a little of it is due to being pissed and wanting nothing more to do with the site. I'm not so pleased at the public dressing down I received a page back, especially when it came a day after I asked to be de-modded and informed them of my intent to leave RC. Not really any way I see to come back from that sort of thing either while remaining a Mod, an Editor in charge of The Lab or simply as a regular user (all of which were offered as alternatives to leaving). While I see that tossing me under that bus was the easy thing to do and expected it to happen, I still find it highly offensive.
But as mentioned above I feel there's a larger safety issue with a lot of what I have in The Lab regarding numerous posts about DIY gear, modification of gear, etc. I'm simply not comfortable leaving stuff like that unattended and given that I have neither the time nor inclination to sort through it to see which of the 1000 posts I have in there is safe to leave, it all has to go. In all likelihood the bulk of it has been quoted so if someone was determined to reconstruct it they probably could. But it prevents some casual sport-rappeller from reading something I wrote on RC, misunderstanding it and then getting himself hurt. I'm sure most will not agree with this approach to dealing with that scenario, but I feel it to be the correct one.
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Gmburns2000
Aug 12, 2010, 11:21 PM
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jt512 wrote: carabiner96 wrote: johnwesely wrote: curt wrote: jakedatc wrote: ncrockclimber wrote: I hope that Aric continues to contribute to this site as a user; I have enjoyed reading some of his posts. However, I am also glad that he is no longer in a role that gave him access to power (small though it was) that he was obviously incapable of using. Don't hold your breath.. he's had enough. Well, that would be unfortunate, but it's clearly up to him. curt According to his FB, he going to remove all of his content as well. Can't say I blame him. Are you kidding? Jay
Jesus, if I had to deal with you as a mod I'd feel the same. I have no problem admitting I'm a gumby, but you're a pain in the ass through and through.
Maybe he should have stepped back, maybe it got out of control and got too personal, but neither of those are 100% Aric; you're just a crappy person to deal with on this site. I have learned WAY, WAY, WAY more from Aric than I have from you, and I'm not even a physics guy.
However, I do like Curt's posts.
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ddt
Aug 13, 2010, 10:29 AM
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Many have asked why I would allow a contributor like Aric to be "pushed" off this site, while not taking any action against those who did the "pushing", so I'd like to offer a brief explanation.
Let me start by clarifying why I relieved Aric of his status as a mod. Two reasons:
1. He requested it from me
2. Earlier in this thread he posted a blatant personal attack on another user. Moderators are not above the rules.
Why no action against anyone else? Well, as far as I am aware, no one else violated any rules or regulations that warranted action. Sure, there were some harsh words, but all well within what I consider to be tolerable when applying the norms for "personal attack" and "abuse" on this site. Persistence in making heated arguments is no reason for action against a user, nor is our perceived "value" of someone as a contributor on the site or the degree to which we like or dislike them.
I have a lot of respect for Aric and I really like him as a person. I can understand completely how one can sometimes be driven to the edge by some users, so I don't blame him for it. (Potentially) seeing him leave rockclimbing.com is a sad day for me personally, and me being an active participant in this process makes it even worse. It is by far the most unpleasant decision I've made since taking the reigns of this site 5 years ago. Still, we have a set of rules/principles which I will not and can not throw out the window, despite my feelings.
So, the only thing that is left (apart from hoping that Aric will in fact stay), is to try and prevent this sort of thing from ever happening again. Hence my suggested approach to deal with these situations going forward... let's focus our energy on improving things around here.
Aric, I know you feel thrown under the bus. I am truly sorry for that.
Jay, Curt and others, please let it lie. Please no more advice to Aric or questioning him or reflecting on his actions. Let him go if he wants to go. Let him stay if he wants to stay, and respect the fact that it will take a helluva a lot of character from him to do that.
Daniel
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adatesman
Aug 13, 2010, 12:55 PM
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Daniel,
I truly hope you see the reason I'm pissed about it. There's a very big difference between doing it because I asked you to and doing it in a manner which implies that it is a punitive action against me.
As is already clear, I'm still very much of the opinion that a long standing history of unnecessary harshness, abrasiveness and general lack of even a modicum of respect or courtesy lowers the bar for what should be considered abuse. Yes, I called JT short and said he has a Napoleon complex. I've been told both are the case by people who know him personally, so I suppose I could argue in JT-like fashion that these are merely statements of fact and therefore not abusive statements. But there really is no point in arguing that, as clearly I'm in the wrong and have been shown the door.
-aric.
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boymeetsrock
Aug 13, 2010, 4:43 PM
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Lets put aside the harassing tone and comments from JT and Curt up thread, since it has been ignored so far anyway.
Why was no action taken against USNavy, after he started harassing Aric here and on FB? Was that not a violation of the TOS? It sounds like Aric reported it to the mods. Don't you guys have each others backs?
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jt512
Aug 13, 2010, 5:22 PM
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Daniel, I would be more than willing to let this go if Aric would be, but per his usual modus operandi...
adatesman wrote: Yes, I called JT short and said he has a Napoleon complex. I've been told both are the case by people who know him personally, so I suppose I could argue in JT-like fashion that these are merely statements of fact and therefore not abusive statements.
...he instigates the harassment, belabors it, and then claims to be the victim of the very person he's harassing.
This started even before he was a moderator. In this thread from '08 he accuses me of "abusing" him and requests that I be banned from the lab. Phil replies, "I'll not be supporting any sort of ban on JT512 in this forum for anything contained within this thread. I have only seen robust and vigorous and rigorous discussion...." Eight pages of unfathomable belligerence and taunting later, Aric admits that he had been intentionally harassing me all along: "needling you kept me amused most of the day yesterday."
So, there's the M.O.: relentlessly harass the user; provoke his anger; claim to be the victim; and demand that the user be banned.
Until your last post, Aric, I was with Daniel, and hoped that you would stay on, possibly in the capacity of editor of the Lab; I have expressed as much privately to Curt. However, after your last post, I now believe that your pattern of behavior toward users is incorrigible.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Aug 14, 2010, 4:35 AM)
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adatesman
Aug 13, 2010, 5:25 PM
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jt512 wrote: Daniel, I would be more than willing to let this go if Aric would, be per his usual modus operandi... adatesman wrote: Yes, I called JT short and said he has a Napoleon complex. I've been told both are the case by people who know him personally, so I suppose I could argue in JT-like fashion that these are merely statements of fact and therefore not abusive statements. ...he instigates the harassment, belabors it, and then claims to be the victim of the very person he's harassing. This started even before he was a moderator. In this thread from '08 he accuses me of "abusing" him and requests that I be banned from the lab. Phil replies, "I'll not be supporting any sort of ban on JT512 in this forum for anything contained within this thread. I have only seen robust and vigorous and rigorous discussion...." Eight pages of unfathomable belligerence and taunting later, Aric admits that he had been intentionally harassing me: "needling you kept me amused most of the day yesterday." So, there's the M.O.: relentlessly harass the user; provoke his anger; claim to be the victim; and demand that the user be banned. Until your last post, Aric, I was with Daniel, and hoped that you would stay on, possibly in the capacity of editor of the Lab; I have expressed as much privately to Curt. However, after your last post, I now believe that your pattern of behavior toward users is incorrigible. Jay
Yes Jay, I'm the one who's an abrasive, condescending ass towards everyone here.
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jt512
Aug 13, 2010, 5:29 PM
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adatesman wrote: jt512 wrote: Daniel, I would be more than willing to let this go if Aric would, be per his usual modus operandi... adatesman wrote: Yes, I called JT short and said he has a Napoleon complex. I've been told both are the case by people who know him personally, so I suppose I could argue in JT-like fashion that these are merely statements of fact and therefore not abusive statements. ...he instigates the harassment, belabors it, and then claims to be the victim of the very person he's harassing. This started even before he was a moderator. In this thread from '08 he accuses me of "abusing" him and requests that I be banned from the lab. Phil replies, "I'll not be supporting any sort of ban on JT512 in this forum for anything contained within this thread. I have only seen robust and vigorous and rigorous discussion...." Eight pages of unfathomable belligerence and taunting later, Aric admits that he had been intentionally harassing me: "needling you kept me amused most of the day yesterday." So, there's the M.O.: relentlessly harass the user; provoke his anger; claim to be the victim; and demand that the user be banned. Until your last post, Aric, I was with Daniel, and hoped that you would stay on, possibly in the capacity of editor of the Lab; I have expressed as much privately to Curt. However, after your last post, I now believe that your pattern of behavior toward users is incorrigible. Jay Yes Jay, I'm the one who's an abrasive, condescending ass towards everyone here.
Just incredible.
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adatesman
Aug 13, 2010, 5:45 PM
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jt512 wrote: adatesman wrote: Yes Jay, I'm the one who's an abrasive, condescending ass towards everyone here. Just incredible.
Yes it is, Jay. Thank goodness it doesn't result in driving away users or quality content.
EDIT- fix cheesetit.
(This post was edited by adatesman on Aug 13, 2010, 6:10 PM)
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Re: [ncrockclimber] Issues with moderation in the lab
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