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hanginhank
Oct 16, 2010, 11:46 AM
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Hello everyone, I had a hopefully minor injury last night and I'm probably going to get it checked out but I thought I'd see what i could learn here..
So last night I was bouldering at the gym and did a move with a drop knee, but when doing this something (maybe a tendon?) clicked causing immediate pain and as i fell out of the move it clicked back to normal. It felt like it was mainly in the back of my knee and to the outside, sort of in the hamstring area. I stopped climbing and tried to check out what was going on. I was no longer in pain, and still had a full range of motion with my knee. I went home, rested, iced it, went to bed, and it still feels a little out of whack in some positions, but is not causing any real pain.
Hopefully my description is useful and thanks in advance for any thoughts.
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j_ung
Oct 16, 2010, 1:58 PM
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A friend of mine once dislocated a patella doing a drop knee. I had to reduce it -- tons o' fun, that was.
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onceahardman
Oct 16, 2010, 4:07 PM
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From your description, I'd suspect your IT band slipped behind your lateral femoral condyle, and got "hung up" a little on the way back over:
http://www.kneepaininfo.com/kneeITBand.html
Pay particular attention to the 5th paragraph.
I don't want to start another pissing match about whether or not strength training "helps" climbing, but if you were my patient, I'd have you doing some pretty aggressive closed-chain strengthening, once your inflammation dies down. Do not overstretch, you are probably a bit too flexible at this point.
A brief google search of "closed chain lower extremity strength training" will yield more fruit than anything more I could say. Good luck, keep us posted.
(This post was edited by onceahardman on Oct 16, 2010, 4:08 PM)
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kobaz
Oct 16, 2010, 6:38 PM
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Did your knee look like this?
A friend of mine that had a knee issue after doing a drop knee.
(This post was edited by kobaz on Oct 16, 2010, 10:36 PM)
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knee.jpg
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hanginhank
Oct 17, 2010, 11:36 AM
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appreciate the info onceahardman!
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hanginhank
Oct 17, 2010, 5:27 PM
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My knee is feeling okay except for when I bend it towards its limit and when i do I feel minor pain and it is a little funky. Should I RICE and take ibuprofen for a little while before getting on it again?
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milesenoell
Oct 17, 2010, 9:39 PM
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kobaz wrote: Did your knee look like this? A friend of mine that had a knee issue after doing a drop knee.
eew.
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kobaz
Oct 17, 2010, 10:52 PM
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milesenoell wrote: kobaz wrote: Did your knee look like this? [img]http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=5306;[/img] A friend of mine that had a knee issue after doing a drop knee. eew.
Yeah it looked really bad but she was surprisingly upbeat. It was a dislocated patella
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spikeddem
Oct 18, 2010, 6:19 PM
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kobaz wrote: milesenoell wrote: kobaz wrote: Did your knee look like this? [img]http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=5306;[/img] A friend of mine that had a knee issue after doing a drop knee. eew. Yeah it looked really bad but she was surprisingly upbeat. It was a dislocated patella
GAHHHHHHHHHHHHH. EWWWWWW
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slidingmike
Oct 19, 2010, 6:10 AM
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Torn meniscus is another possibility.
I'm dealing with that right now. 
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hanginhank
Oct 21, 2010, 4:44 PM
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I have been climbing on my knee carefully and avoiding drop knees as best I can and it feels good except when I fully retract it or drop knee it still feels messed up. It hasn't really hurt in these positions but something still feels messed up and feels like if I were to really use it without caution it might do something again. I don't know if getting it looked at will really help identify the problem unless I were to get an MRI but I'm really hoping it's not that serious.. any thoughts?
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aerili
Oct 22, 2010, 2:04 AM
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hanginhank wrote: I don't know if getting it looked at will really help identify the problem unless I were to get an MRI but I'm really hoping it's not that serious.. any thoughts?
A doctor should not order an MRI without doing a series of manual tests on your knee and having a good idea of what could be wrong first. And in fact, the MRI may not change anything about how the doc would treat the injury based on symptoms anyway.
And a GOOD doctor does NOT diagnose by an image (or blood test or whatever) alone.
(This post was edited by aerili on Oct 22, 2010, 5:52 AM)
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onceahardman
Oct 22, 2010, 1:01 PM
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In reply to: I have been climbing on my knee carefully and avoiding drop knees as best I can and it feels good except when I fully retract it or drop knee it still feels messed up.
When you say "retract", I suspect what you mean is "flex", or to bend your knee. At least that is what your MD or PT would say.
Anyway, If you are blocked in flexion, some kind of internal derangement of the joint, like say, (as someone mentioned above), meniscus tear, is certainly in play.
MRI can assist the diagnosis, arthrogram is arguably better but they are infrequently done any more.
Truly accurate diagnosis can only be made by cutting it open and and looking at it.
Outcome studies, in general, have shown similar outcomes for small meniscus tears, for conservative management (non-surgical, exercise-based PT) vs. arthroscopy. Larger, or more troublesome tears do better with surgery, but meniscus tear tends to set you up for arthritis later, regardless.
Meniscal repair rather than removal (meniscectomy), can be a good option in some cases, but the rehabilitation is much longer, and requires patience and compliance from the patient.
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hanginhank
Oct 22, 2010, 1:54 PM
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It isn't really blocked in flexion it only feels messed up when I weight it when it is towards being fully flexed. I can do the regular quad stretch pulling my heel to my butt without noticing anything wrong.
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dreday3000
Oct 22, 2010, 1:57 PM
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Last winter I tore my meniscus doing a super aggressive drop knee. Not sure its your issue but I thought I'd mention it as the symptoms seem similar. Felt a sharp pain at the onset of injury and lowered down. Couldn't straighten my leg or full retract it but aside from the initial pain it didn't hurt for the next 24 hours.
Went to the doctor and got an X ray. Was told I need an MRI. Got the MRI and was told I needed surgery. Got the surgery and 4 months of rehab. Feeling pretty good now but lost some climbing strength during the recovery period. I'm 8 months out from the injury and the Knee seems pretty good. I'm careful with it but don't think its holding me back. I picked up running during the rehab and I'm thinking of doing a half marathon next month...so that's encouraging right?
Good luck.
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onceahardman
Oct 22, 2010, 2:06 PM
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Well, that is good news.
It is certainly possible you might just have a bit of joint capsule inflammation (synovitis), which causes discomfort in certain positions.
Let it calm down for a few days or a couple weeks. Don't keep testing the extremes to see if it still hurts.
No loss of ROM = a good thing. Let it finish healing. There is a course of time required for nearly all injuries. A simple bone fracture might be 4-6 weeks. An ACL repair might be 6-12 months.
Can you possibly be a little more specific in describing the injury, beyond, "it only feels messed up when I weight it when it is towards being fully flexed. " ?? What does "messed up" mean? Is it plausible that there might be a bit of swelling in the joint that makes it feel, "squishy"? Or does it feel like its dislocating, or that the end of your tibia is broken off, or what?
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hanginhank
Oct 22, 2010, 2:27 PM
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It's a feeling very difficult to describe. When I put it in this specific position and weight it I feel a small amount of pain that seems somewhat deep and on the outside (as in right side of right knee) and just doesn't feel right. Could be that somthing is still inflamed and just not allowing my knee to function quite right. I know this is very general still but I'm not sure how to describe or compare it really because I've never had a knee injury before. I'm going to have it looked at in a little while and I'll post what I learn from that. Thanks for all the help so far!
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hanginhank
Oct 23, 2010, 12:50 AM
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okay so I went to the doctor, he did some movement tests and stuff and said we could pretty much rule out a meniscus tear and suggested i just keep taking ibuprofen and it should eventually recover. However, I went climbing tonight at the gym and I was feeling good and then did a drop knee towards the end of the night on a move that hadnt hurt it at all before and when i did, something on the outside of my knee (maybe a tendon?) clicked to a position that was not normal and it hurt, causing me to fall. I was hanging on the rope, knee still bent, then I straightened my knee all the way and it clicked back into place. I notice a very small amount of soreness, but i still have a full range of motion. So now I'm very confused and pretty sure its not as deep inside as I had thought.
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hanginhank
Oct 23, 2010, 2:06 PM
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I've been looking at some knee anatomy pictures and I think it is my lateral collateral ligament. maybe it was stretched? I don't know.. could be something else too like maybe my IT band like onceahardman suggested earlier.
(This post was edited by hanginhank on Oct 23, 2010, 2:29 PM)
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