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tucsonalex
Dec 31, 2002, 7:40 PM
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My post about the Boulder Rock Club has made me wonder...Why do climbing gyms soften their ratings? This can lead people to believe that they climb harder then they actually do and get them into trouble when they get outside on real rock. Anyone agree?
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lox
Dec 31, 2002, 7:42 PM
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Duh.
All I send v5 and flailing on warmup roof and schizz.
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crack_head
Dec 31, 2002, 8:03 PM
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what Lox
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vaness
Dec 31, 2002, 8:09 PM
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i dont know why gyms do that. the gym i go to has done it a lot but they are starting to put up routes that are the real grade. i think its because most gyms have a color code. like red tape is 5.11 and blue is 5.12 so when they tape it they think its going to be hard and they dont acctully climb it first. so they just tape it and not bother to re tape it the right color.
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holmeslovesguinness
Dec 31, 2002, 8:14 PM
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I climb at The Spot in Boulder. It's all pretty much bouldering, but rather than use the V scale they rank everything on a 'dot' scale, 1 to 5 I think. Keeps people from getting hung up on trying to compare what they do in the gym to real rock I guess.
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t-dog
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Dec 31, 2002, 8:24 PM
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I would go for the gyms (or routesetters) trying to make people feel good about their climbing ability. It's annoying at the beginning but you get used to it after a while.
On the other hand, the gym on-campus that I work at does exactly the opposite, and rates everything much lower than it really is, that way if you can climb 5.10 in our gym, then you probably won't get scared on a outdoor 5.10 cause it won't be half as hard as what you did in the gym.
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vegastradguy
Dec 31, 2002, 8:27 PM
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It's because they want beginners to feel like they have accomplished something.
My climbing gym caters to the very young people and beginners mostly, and they want people to feel like they are getting somewhere. Up to about 5.10ish, the grades are soft (so, a 5.10 is really like a 5.9-5.9+), then once you hit the higher grades, it gets a little fuzzy. They are still soft, but not as much (so, a 5.11c is likely a 5.10d or a 5.11a).
I can see the point when you are just starting. I remember climbing my first 5.10- in the gym and feeling so proud. LOL, it probably went like, 5.9 max. But hey, it felt good at the time, so I can appreciate it.
But everyone has a point, ratings outside are a whole different ball game. It would probably be better if they tried to mimic outside ratings. Once I own my own gym, I'll try to do just that.
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zetedog
Dec 31, 2002, 8:32 PM
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It's not just that the routes in the gym are technically easier (though sometimes they are) you also have to realize what you lose when climbing in the gym. I had this same argument with a pretty decent routesetter a number of years ago, and he more or less told me this:
When your on real rock, the difficulty of climbing involves (at least) 3 basic things:
1) The difficulty of the hold
2) Knowing where the hold is
3) Knowing how to grip the hold, 3A) for the most efficient use of you muscles, 3B) for the best chance to move to the next hold.
When you climb in the gym, you completely eliminate any route finding you need with the tape markings, so #2 is out the window. If you have done gym climbing for any amount of time, you really start to know the "best way" to grip most of the holds, which starts to eliminate 3A, and knowing the body positioning you'll need for the next hold will eliminate 3B.
Add that with the greater feeling of safety in the gym, and the climbs "seem" a lot easier. (I know I always feel like superman without worrying about rock falling from above, sharp pointy rocks below, and I tend to "move" better, more confidently in the gym in the gym)
My own personal anecdote:
I use to warm up outside on 3 different 5.6 climbs and 4 5.7's, which (at the time), was way below my limit of mid 5.11's. After a summer, I had every hold on each of these routes completely wired. I remember taking a friend to the gym and taking turns with him on some similarly graded routes. The indoor climbs "felt" pretty close to the outdoor routes in terms of difficulty of holds and movement of body positions (most 5.6 climbs don't use drop knees or gastons, etc)
This, when you add in the fact that grading is a comparison deal, and that areas tend to be slightly different from other areas, means that besides the few real soft graded areas, gyms, they do all tend to be pretty near.
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rockpossum
Dec 31, 2002, 8:59 PM
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Back when I played football the QB's would throw away the odd pass in practise drills. The DB's could get a cheap interception to boost their confidence. It really worked, the DB's became steely eyed ball hawks and their interception rates climbed.
Now I doubt the climbing gyms do this conciously for the same reason but if you think you can climb a higher grade. Maybe you can.
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funktimonious
Dec 31, 2002, 9:21 PM
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What about profits also? If gym climbers were to start at a low grade and never be able to progress past 5.10's, they'd probably get discouraged and stop going to the gym. However, if they're able to go from 5.7's to 5.11's or higher at a steady pace, then they'd likely continue to return.
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polarwid
Dec 31, 2002, 10:15 PM
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[small]This topic was moved to the Indoor Gyms forum by polarwid[/small]
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