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rocker1525
Nov 12, 2011, 6:34 PM
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At my local spot that isn't used often the anchors at the top are bolted as have a screw locking carabiner and a chain hanging. These are pretty rusted and worn. What's the best way to go about replacing the
? Home dept? Online? Point me in the right direction please
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redlude97
Nov 12, 2011, 7:10 PM
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Do you mean a quicklink? You don't know what you are doing so you should let someone who does do the replacing. If the bottom link of the chain is actually worn too far, the cut that link off. Surface rust on chains is fine.
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rocker1525
Nov 12, 2011, 7:47 PM
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I may not have been climbing for long but I can tell when something is unsafe. Some of the chains have large metal shards in them, and some are so rusted they are unable to move.
You don't have to be a rocket scientist to haul a chain and "quick link" to the top of a route and replace them. I was just wondering what and where the best material could be bought.
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rocknice2
Nov 12, 2011, 8:22 PM
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Visit your local hardware store
Get some 3/8 chain and quick links. Try to get the QL's that have a rating stamped.
Go to crag and replace. Tighten the QL with a wrench.
Climb away
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rocker1525
Nov 12, 2011, 8:50 PM
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Thats what I was looking for, thank you!
Just trying to be the nice guy at the crag and replace some hardware
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Rmsyll2
Nov 13, 2011, 12:20 AM
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"I can tell when something is unsafe."
Not necessarily, in this case.
For instance, where I climb, there have been many complaints about hangers that spin, suggesting that the bolting is not tight and not secure. Not necessarily, in this case; and the designated bolting captain has judged them all to be fine, which is why they weren't previously replaced.
You are looking at "metal shards" without saying shards of what metal from what. You did not assess the wear on the lowest link, and do not know about quick-links or the various ratings for them or proper sizes. You did not say face anchors or rim anchors, or why there are chains or what lengths they should or might be if there should be chains instead of face rings. And while concerned about the chains, you have not said anything about the bolts, even to their construction type. If the exterior is indeed too weakened, how'bout the interior parts?
The common advice to let someone who knows how, do it, begs a big question for me: how does anyone learn to do bolting well? And maybe your area is not used much for good reasons?
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guangzhou
Nov 13, 2011, 12:56 AM
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Rmsyll2 wrote: "I can tell when something is unsafe." Not necessarily, in this case. For instance, where I climb, there have been many complaints about hangers that spin, suggesting that the bolting is not tight and not secure. Not necessarily, in this case; and the designated bolting captain has judged them all to be fine, which is why they weren't previously replaced. You are looking at "metal shards" without saying shards of what metal from what. You did not assess the wear on the lowest link, and do not know about quick-links or the various ratings for them or proper sizes. You did not say face anchors or rim anchors, or why there are chains or what lengths they should or might be if there should be chains instead of face rings. And while concerned about the chains, you have not said anything about the bolts, even to their construction type. If the exterior is indeed too weakened, how'bout the interior parts? The common advice to let someone who knows how, do it, begs a big question for me: how does anyone learn to do bolting well? And maybe your area is not used much for good reasons? .
The user has a crag with chains held on to the hanger with locking carabiners. Some chains are so rusted they don't move. He wants to spend money and replace the hardware with good quality chain and quicklink.
OP. Good on you. One user above gave you good advice on what and where to buy.
As for Rmsyll2, I have no idea what a designated bolting captain is.
(This post was edited by guangzhou on Nov 13, 2011, 12:59 AM)
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roadstead
Nov 13, 2011, 2:57 PM
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guangzhou wrote: Rmsyll2 wrote: "I can tell when something is unsafe." Not necessarily, in this case. For instance, where I climb, there have been many complaints about hangers that spin, suggesting that the bolting is not tight and not secure. Not necessarily, in this case; and the designated bolting captain has judged them all to be fine, which is why they weren't previously replaced. You are looking at "metal shards" without saying shards of what metal from what. You did not assess the wear on the lowest link, and do not know about quick-links or the various ratings for them or proper sizes. You did not say face anchors or rim anchors, or why there are chains or what lengths they should or might be if there should be chains instead of face rings. And while concerned about the chains, you have not said anything about the bolts, even to their construction type. If the exterior is indeed too weakened, how'bout the interior parts? The common advice to let someone who knows how, do it, begs a big question for me: how does anyone learn to do bolting well? And maybe your area is not used much for good reasons? . The user has a crag with chains held on to the hanger with locking carabiners. Some chains are so rusted they don't move. He wants to spend money and replace the hardware with good quality chain and quicklink. OP. Good on you. One user above gave you good advice on what and where to buy. As for Rmsyll2, I have no idea what a designated bolting captain is.
The smartest moron in a bunch.
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tH1e-swiN1e
Nov 13, 2011, 7:28 PM
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hahahahaha
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marc801
Nov 13, 2011, 11:37 PM
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Rmsyll2 wrote: For instance, where I climb, there have been many complaints about hangers that spin, suggesting that the bolting is not tight and not secure.
Rmsyll2 wrote: ...the designated bolting captain...
Rmsyll2 wrote: You did not say face anchors or rim anchors, or why there are chains or what lengths they should or might be if there should be chains instead of face rings.
Rmsyll2 wrote: The common advice to let someone who knows how, do it, begs a big question for me: how does anyone learn to do bolting well?
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tolman_paul
Nov 14, 2011, 9:30 PM
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Just something to consider, if the chains are signifigantly rusted out, the bolts might also be in the same condition. Putting new chains on possibly marginal bolts isn't just false economy, and can give others a false impression of the quality of the anchor. When doing repairs or replacements, evaluate the entire anchor.
Also when installing chains, make sure the link the rope runs through is oriented verticly, so the rope runs through it side to side. This keeps the rope from being pinched and abrading against the rock.
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Rmsyll2
Nov 15, 2011, 3:24 AM
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'guangzhou' said "I have no idea what a designated bolting captain is."
I climb at a state park, which must approve, but does not supply or maintain, anything about climbing. One organization is relied on to do it all. For the one park, one person is designated by the organization as the contact person, and he assesses needs and oversees changes that the park superintendent requests or approves. That is because the park service recognizes that safety is second in priority only to avoiding liability lawsuits, and that demands only experienced and qualified (not the same thing) persons doing what is done. The complaints about spinners were reported to the superintendent, who reported to the bolting captain, who assessed and reported back to the superintendent.
Some climbers disagreed, and later tried to tighten some of the attachments, one person using the hex holes in the handle of his nut tool just for that use. Some attachments have the bolt head exposed, some have a nut exposed, some have nothing exposed except the end of what was hammered in. For any of those, a variety of constructions may be inside the hole. For anything that might be turned, turning too hard can loosen or even extract the mounting. Imo, without knowing what you might be turning, and what that might do, you shouldn't.
I know of three reasons for a loose hanger. One, it was not tightened enough for present weather conditions. Two, the bolt hole was not drilled far enough. Three, the hole was not perpendicular to the plane the hanger would rest on, so that not enough of the base plate is snug against enough rock, and wear leaves it loose enough to rotate. I know of a case for each, along with each of the bolt systems mentioned above.
There are three cases of chain top anchors where I climb [see Att'd], all on the face, not on the rim, and one intermediate anchor, all for Sport routes. I have been told (having asked) that chains are added to TR rim anchors, particularly in Europe, to hang over the edge so that climbers do not have to make their own rigging to do that. The chains I see are bolted directly, not linked from a hanger, two having been installed about twenty years ago, but one duplicating previous method. Note that for 'Velvet' one chain has rusted, even though both are only about five years old. That is a consequence of limited quality control in construction, that being a reason for not using anything from a hardware store (or China).
Face rings are rings attached to the face rather than the rim. A photo is attached, illustrating the question raised above about replacing chains with chains. Why chains? Durability and cost are mentioned, along with providing multiple attachment points; but note quick-links attached to the 'Bondage' chains, and the carabiners on the 'Henar' chains. Common links do not easily accept either carabiners being clipped under stress or ropes for rappelling down. If a chain would be attached to the bolt by a quick-link, why add the chain, needing something with a larger opening at the bottom.
Another point to consider is how the bolts were situated. The photo for 'Herculean' shows two kinds of hangers, regular and a Fixe ring, with the result still not equalized. If the bolts are not parallel, if mounted horizontally, how will that be corrected by another chain? [See also one nut and one head.]
Repeating and increasing my point about the condition of the bolts, Paul said "When doing repairs or replacements, evaluate the entire anchor." The op is not able to do that, even with (or especially with) advice here. It could be that the area was abandoned because the previous "protection" was done as poorly as it is about to be redone, and/or the quality of the climbs wasn't considered worth the trouble.
The anchors climbers complained about were placed by the approved organization. Other of their TR sets there are given "bomb" ratings in the current climbing guide as poor routes to start with, and another is not listed at all. If an aspiring bolter is supposed to find another bolter, how was that previous bolter able to learn good craft well? And how would the aspiring bolter know that the chosen mentor had learned well?
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Attachments:
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Bondage chainsDtl.jpg
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Henar chainsDtl.jpg
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Velvet chains1Dtl.jpg
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Rain ringsDtl.jpg
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Herculean anchorsDtl.jpg
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