|
shockabuku
Dec 22, 2011, 2:01 PM
Post #26 of 52
(3247 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4868
|
JaWiB wrote: Thought I'd add my 2c since I don't think anyone mentioned this, but I think the rope could also cause the quickdraw to unclip itself. Probably only a concern on routes that are less than vertical, but if you have the gate facing the rope as you traverse across the bolt, it can open the gate. This happened to me, but instead of unclipping the draw the rope clipped itself into the carabiner attached to the bolt.
It's a concern on steep routes too. The rope can whip around and hit the gate, inserting itself into the biner. I saw it happen to a friend of mine while belaying on an overhanging route.
|
|
|
|
|
bdc
Dec 22, 2011, 4:24 PM
Post #28 of 52
(3225 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 9, 2011
Posts: 1
|
To Notapplicable:
Why not just put lockers on your draws and climb with a fatty?
|
|
|
|
|
agdavis
Dec 22, 2011, 6:28 PM
Post #29 of 52
(3201 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 7, 2009
Posts: 310
|
drector wrote: agdavis wrote: I'm certain that both the bolt and rope ends of the draw were clipped properly. Even when there is evidence that they were not clipped properly? I would not be sure of myself after having such a thing happen. I'm sure that it is easier to blame everything other than yourself but disregarding the possibility that you screwed up just makes you more vulnerable to that type of mistake in the future. Dave
The reason I am sure is because I was apprehensive about making the next few moves, so I obsessed a bit over the clipping, making sure it was correct. It wasn't just your normal clip-and-go.
|
|
|
|
|
cracklover
Dec 22, 2011, 8:09 PM
Post #30 of 52
(3181 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
|
agdavis wrote: drector wrote: agdavis wrote: I'm certain that both the bolt and rope ends of the draw were clipped properly. Even when there is evidence that they were not clipped properly? I would not be sure of myself after having such a thing happen. I'm sure that it is easier to blame everything other than yourself but disregarding the possibility that you screwed up just makes you more vulnerable to that type of mistake in the future. Dave The reason I am sure is because I was apprehensive about making the next few moves, so I obsessed a bit over the clipping, making sure it was correct. It wasn't just your normal clip-and-go.
A few days ago I led a sport route and lowered, leaving all the draws. My partner then led it, and when he got to the fifth bolt, he pulled up slack to clip and the fourth bolt unclipped itself from the hanger.
I'm quite sure the bolt had been clipped to the hanger correctly, although it's certainly possible that the rope may have momentarily been clipped oddly in the rope-side biner. Though by the time he grabbed it, the rope was certainly clipped correctly.
My only guess is that somehow the biner got caught on something as it rotated up and toward the climber as he pulled up rope. Bizarre. And scary. Had he blown the clip and fallen, he would have ledged out from 40 feet up.
GO
|
|
|
|
|
cracklover
Dec 22, 2011, 8:13 PM
Post #31 of 52
(3178 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
|
jt512 wrote: agdavis wrote: Today for the first time my quickdraw unclipped itself from the first bolt and went sliding down the rope. It was a petzl dirtbag draw. I'm certain that both the bolt and rope ends of the draw were clipped properly. It would have been a 25 ft groundfall. Luckily I was able to plug a cam about 10 feet later. I'm assuming this has happened to other people... Does anyone know why this occurs? My only thought was that as the rope jiggled, it moved the bolt-side biner in a way that caused it to unclip itself, and I figured that the stiff dirtbag dogbone could have contributed to this. Any thoughts? The only times I've seen a draw unclip, other than in a fall, is when the climber kicked it while passing it. Even if you don't kick it completely off, you can kick it so that it gets stuck on the bolt with the gate open, allowing rope drag to completely dislodge it as you continue to climb. The climber can be completely oblivious to the situation. Jay
In the situation I mention one post up, the climber was not all the way past the fourth bolt, so he couldn't have kicked it. I suppose it's possible that he hit it with his hip or something, but it seems very improbable that you could open a gate and set the biner onto the hanger with your hip, unless you leaned hard into the bolt, which he did not do.
GO
|
|
|
|
|
rossross
Dec 22, 2011, 9:47 PM
Post #32 of 52
(3152 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 29, 2007
Posts: 40
|
"cracklover wrote: A few days ago I led a sport route and lowered, leaving all the draws. My partner then led it, and when he got to the fifth bolt, he pulled up slack to clip and the fourth bolt unclipped itself from the hanger. I'm quite sure the bolt had been clipped to the hanger correctly, although it's certainly possible that the rope may have momentarily been clipped oddly in the rope-side biner. Though by the time he grabbed it, the rope was certainly clipped correctly. My only guess is that somehow the biner got caught on something as it rotated up and toward the climber as he pulled up rope. Bizarre. And scary. Had he blown the clip and fallen, he would have ledged out from 40 feet up. GO
that sounds effin EPIC
never seen a bolt unclip itself
;)
|
|
|
|
|
atdrennen
Dec 22, 2011, 10:35 PM
Post #33 of 52
(3144 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 13, 2010
Posts: 31
|
Is that an Edelrid rope?
|
|
|
|
|
cracklover
Dec 23, 2011, 4:25 PM
Post #34 of 52
(3097 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
|
rossross wrote: "cracklover wrote: A few days ago I led a sport route and lowered, leaving all the draws. My partner then led it, and when he got to the fifth bolt, he pulled up slack to clip and the fourth bolt unclipped itself from the hanger. I'm quite sure the bolt had been clipped to the hanger correctly, although it's certainly possible that the rope may have momentarily been clipped oddly in the rope-side biner. Though by the time he grabbed it, the rope was certainly clipped correctly. My only guess is that somehow the biner got caught on something as it rotated up and toward the climber as he pulled up rope. Bizarre. And scary. Had he blown the clip and fallen, he would have ledged out from 40 feet up. GO that sounds effin EPIC never seen a bolt unclip itself ;)
Ha! Yeah, I meant the draw on the fourth bolt unclipped itself from the hanger.
GO
|
|
|
|
|
caughtinside
Dec 23, 2011, 5:50 PM
Post #35 of 52
(3090 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 8, 2003
Posts: 30603
|
I wouldn't sweat it too much. I have had it happen to me one time. So maybe once out of every 10,000 bolts clipped?
It is serious for sure, but freakish. I thought about it some when it happened to me, and I don't think I'd change anything. FWIW, I think I either kicked it off or brushed it off with a knee or hip. I don't really remember, I just climbed past it, heard a noise, and saw it zip down the rope to the next bolt.
But if you climb enough you will see lots of weird stuff happen, part of the game.
|
|
|
|
|
caughtinside
Dec 23, 2011, 5:54 PM
Post #36 of 52
(3087 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 8, 2003
Posts: 30603
|
cracklover wrote: agdavis wrote: drector wrote: agdavis wrote: I'm certain that both the bolt and rope ends of the draw were clipped properly. Even when there is evidence that they were not clipped properly? I would not be sure of myself after having such a thing happen. I'm sure that it is easier to blame everything other than yourself but disregarding the possibility that you screwed up just makes you more vulnerable to that type of mistake in the future. Dave The reason I am sure is because I was apprehensive about making the next few moves, so I obsessed a bit over the clipping, making sure it was correct. It wasn't just your normal clip-and-go. A few days ago I led a sport route and lowered, leaving all the draws. My partner then led it, and when he got to the fifth bolt, he pulled up slack to clip and the fourth bolt unclipped itself from the hanger. I'm quite sure the bolt had been clipped to the hanger correctly, although it's certainly possible that the rope may have momentarily been clipped oddly in the rope-side biner. Though by the time he grabbed it, the rope was certainly clipped correctly. My only guess is that somehow the biner got caught on something as it rotated up and toward the climber as he pulled up rope. Bizarre. And scary. Had he blown the clip and fallen, he would have ledged out from 40 feet up. GO
Well, you lowered off. Seems like the top biner could have rotated and nosehooked or something without you noticing. I know I'm not watching the draws when I'm lowering off leaving them up. Hell, I look around the gym and half the time the top quicklink is crossloaded.
|
|
|
|
|
cracklover
Dec 23, 2011, 7:06 PM
Post #37 of 52
(3065 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
|
caughtinside wrote: cracklover wrote: agdavis wrote: drector wrote: agdavis wrote: I'm certain that both the bolt and rope ends of the draw were clipped properly. Even when there is evidence that they were not clipped properly? I would not be sure of myself after having such a thing happen. I'm sure that it is easier to blame everything other than yourself but disregarding the possibility that you screwed up just makes you more vulnerable to that type of mistake in the future. Dave The reason I am sure is because I was apprehensive about making the next few moves, so I obsessed a bit over the clipping, making sure it was correct. It wasn't just your normal clip-and-go. A few days ago I led a sport route and lowered, leaving all the draws. My partner then led it, and when he got to the fifth bolt, he pulled up slack to clip and the fourth bolt unclipped itself from the hanger. I'm quite sure the bolt had been clipped to the hanger correctly, although it's certainly possible that the rope may have momentarily been clipped oddly in the rope-side biner. Though by the time he grabbed it, the rope was certainly clipped correctly. My only guess is that somehow the biner got caught on something as it rotated up and toward the climber as he pulled up rope. Bizarre. And scary. Had he blown the clip and fallen, he would have ledged out from 40 feet up. GO Well, you lowered off. Seems like the top biner could have rotated and nosehooked or something without you noticing. I know I'm not watching the draws when I'm lowering off leaving them up. Hell, I look around the gym and half the time the top quicklink is crossloaded.
Yeah that's true. It could have gotten pulled to the side when I lowered, and had that do something funky. Odd, though, that he wouldn't have noticed something like that when clipping the rope-side biner.
Anyway, like you said - a freak thing.
GO
|
|
|
|
|
notapplicable
Dec 24, 2011, 5:23 AM
Post #38 of 52
(3008 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 31, 2006
Posts: 17771
|
caughtinside wrote: But if you climb enough you will see lots of weird stuff happen, part of the game.
And sometimes they happen at just the right moment to make you wonder if karma actually exists...
Last sunday, exactly one week after I was talking shit about using two draws on each bolt in this thread, the craziest thing I've seen so far happened. I clipped the top bolt on a route I've done 6-7 times before and climbed to the chains. All situations normal at this point. 15 seconds later though, I lowered down to find just a single biner (boltside) attached to the bolt with the rope clipped to it and the rope side biner and dogbone hanging on the next bolt down. WTF!!
Somehow the boltside biner flipped around and the rope clipped itself into it, which allowed the dogbone to unclip and slide down the rope. I repeat...WTF!! If two other people hadn't been there to witness it, I would be inclined to think I hallucinated the whole thing.
Lesson of the story: Watch out for the cliff dwelling leprechauns, they are quite the pranksters.
The route is somewhat overhanging with the steepest part being between the last bolt and the chains. It was this model of Wild Country draw. They are a friends and this was my first time using them.
|
|
|
|
|
notapplicable
Dec 24, 2011, 5:29 AM
Post #39 of 52
(3006 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 31, 2006
Posts: 17771
|
bdc wrote: To Notapplicable: Why not just put lockers on your draws and climb with a fatty?
Locking biners on quickdraws? Thats just crazy talk. Silly nOOb!
|
|
|
|
|
Urban_Cowboy
Dec 24, 2011, 7:13 AM
Post #40 of 52
(2991 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 3, 2009
Posts: 219
|
notapplicable wrote: bdc wrote: To Notapplicable: Why not just put lockers on your draws and climb with a fatty? Locking biners on quickdraws? Thats just crazy talk. Silly nOOb! 
(This post was edited by Urban_Cowboy on Dec 24, 2011, 7:21 AM)
|
|
Attachments:
|
posilock_draw.jpg
(42.0 KB)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
sbaclimber
Dec 24, 2011, 10:32 AM
Post #43 of 52
(2968 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 22, 2004
Posts: 3118
|
Urban_Cowboy wrote: sbaclimber wrote: Sweet! I definitely want a whole set of those for Xmas! (think they'll get here in time?) I especially like how the rope-end biner still even has a bent gate.  Ask Santa, if you've been good maybe they'll be under the tree in the morning. Keeping a bent gate and having it locking was a challenge, but the elves managed to make it work.  
|
|
|
|
|
acorneau
Dec 24, 2011, 3:36 PM
Post #44 of 52
(2944 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 6, 2008
Posts: 2889
|
I guess this is why the Rock Exotica guys came up with the Bi-Wire...
Oh, and off topic: this has to be the coolest-looking gear geek's wet dream ever... the UFO.
(This post was edited by acorneau on Dec 24, 2011, 3:37 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
andrewluke
Dec 24, 2011, 6:17 PM
Post #46 of 52
(2925 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 8, 2011
Posts: 14
|
jt512 wrote: acorneau wrote: I guess this is why the Rock Exotica guys came up with the Bi-Wire... [image]http://www.rockexotica.com/dev/products/carabiners/images/rockd_BW_med.jpg[/image] Yes, one way to make a carabiner un-unclippable is to make it unclippable. Jay
I think it's a great idea provided the outside gate has a lower tension so that pushing your thumb between them would push the gate out. It would be easier to use than an autolocker and all it really needs to do is keep the bolt/rock from pushing on the primary gate.
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Dec 24, 2011, 6:20 PM
Post #47 of 52
(2923 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
andrewluke wrote: jt512 wrote: acorneau wrote: I guess this is why the Rock Exotica guys came up with the Bi-Wire... Yes, one way to make a carabiner un-unclippable is to make it unclippable. Jay It would be easier to use than an autolocker . . .
Which explains the popularity of autolocker-equipped draws.
(This post was edited by jt512 on Dec 24, 2011, 6:22 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
andrewluke
Dec 24, 2011, 6:26 PM
Post #48 of 52
(2917 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 8, 2011
Posts: 14
|
jt512 wrote: andrewluke wrote: jt512 wrote: acorneau wrote: I guess this is why the Rock Exotica guys came up with the Bi-Wire... [image]http://www.rockexotica.com/dev/products/carabiners/images/rockd_BW_med.jpg[/image] Yes, one way to make a carabiner un-unclippable is to make it unclippable. Jay It would be easier to use than an autolocker . . . Which explains the popularity of autolocker-equipped draws.
Totally agree. I don't use them either but if someone wanted the extra piece of mind, these could be cheaper, lighter, and easier to use.
|
|
|
|
|
Lazlo
Dec 24, 2011, 7:21 PM
Post #49 of 52
(2905 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2007
Posts: 5079
|
andrewluke wrote: jt512 wrote: andrewluke wrote: jt512 wrote: acorneau wrote: I guess this is why the Rock Exotica guys came up with the Bi-Wire... Yes, one way to make a carabiner un-unclippable is to make it unclippable. Jay It would be easier to use than an autolocker . . . Which explains the popularity of autolocker-equipped draws. Totally agree. I don't use them either but if someone wanted the extra piece of mind, these could be cheaper, lighter, and easier to use.
I bought one. I have a love/hate relationship with it. I use it for alpine climbs. I figured it wouldn't ice up and would be similar to a locker.
The only down side; is that I'm hesitant to hand it off to a partner... it does take practice to use.
|
|
|
|
|
notapplicable
Dec 24, 2011, 8:36 PM
Post #50 of 52
(2894 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 31, 2006
Posts: 17771
|
Has anybody had a chance to played around with the BD Magnetron? They would be unusable on a draw midroute but I think they might be better than a traditional locker for building anchors/masterpoints.
|
|
|
|
|
|
