Turn the community against him.

Recently a major conflict has come up with the main route developer in my area and myself. I could greatly use some advice on how to handle the situation as the consequences are grave and the outcome of our problem affects the entire community. Let me start off with the basics first.

I mainly climb at a small sport crag located on private property, one of five small crags in the area. Although the property is privately owned, the owner wants noting to do with anything climbing related. He says he does not care who is on the property or what its used for, its just a section of land he owns but does not care about. So the owner refuses to be brought into the situation. Additionally the owner no longer lives in the USA, so its impossible to contact him.

For the past 15 years a guy named Mark has been maintaining the area and replacing old bolts with new ones as well as developing new crags. Until now he has been the sole route developer, but only because no one has been interested in doing any bolting work. About four years ago I moved to the area and started climbing. Recently I decided to add a few new routes to our main crag. I talked with the general community and everyone was is supportive in my developmental plans.

I talked to Mark about my plans. He disagreed with some of my ideas, he though one line was too close to another, another was too chossy and dangerous and he though the other two needed to converge with existing routes to reduce the number of top out anchors. I ran my ideas by the public again and everyone (aside from him and his friends) reconfirmed I have support to bolt the lines I had planed, and in the manner I planed to bolt them. So against Mark’s advice, I bolted all the routes I originally planed on bolting, and in the manner I planned on bolting them (separate anchors for each route, no converging of routes). When he found out, he flipped out telling me I need to run my ideas by the public (although I did).

Well I feel that when a developer creates a sport route, the developer has full control of the exact specifics under which the route is developed such as 10 bolts or 12, two pitches or one, left or right at the roof, ect. As long as I am not doing anything that is obviously unethical or wrong (bolting cracks, chipping, ect.), I get to decide on the precise specifics of how I develop my route. He feels that I need to run EVERYTHING by him and he needs to approve of it or else I cannot do it. Well I ran the specifics by everyone else and everyone accept him and his friend approved.

The truth, I think he is just pissed off I did not follow his recommendations. He is pissed off I added separate anchors and I used bolts that he does not like (yet they are 45 kN, 316 stainless steel, 5/8”x4”, hang a house off them strong).

The thing that pisses me off the most is he says I did not “consult the community” with my plans (although I asked everyone that climbs at the crag beforehand for approval), yet when he makes changes to a route or adds a new one, he doesent ask a single person, not one. He feels he has been there so long that he does not need to ask anyone for approval to do anything, only I do and when he says “ask the community”, he means submit to the precise advice of him and his friends.

Anyway now that the routes are bolted he is threatening to chop them. In retaliation, my friends are threatening to strip an entire private crag of his if he chops any of my routes. I feel that if a single bolt gets chopped, its going to trigger an all out war that will result in a completely devoid region, decommissioned of all climbing.

So I need advice on how to resolve this issue. I want to make everyone happy, however I refuse to submit to dictatorship under which I develop routes in a “free for all” area, especially when there is only one person that has a problem with my routes, everyone else supports them. I really want to take a "screw Mark" stance on this issue and just do my own thing and ignore him. However if I do that he will likely chop my routes which will result in war. I tried to suggest an "agree to disagree" stance with him, but he refused. I feel if you dont like a route, just dont climb it. But he feels if the route does not meet his criteria, it gets chopped.

So this guy has been developing this area for 15 years on his own dime and you just walk in and start throwing up squeeze jobs on his lines and then talking shit about him on the internet? Would it have hurt your ego that much to follow even one piece of his advice, just to get things off on the right foot? For instance, wouldn't it make sense to say to him "hey, I'm willing to compromise - let's have this route I put up on the main cliff share your anchor." You are the one that started this situation so it's on you to de-escalate it.

That really sucks when someone tries to dictate what you can and can't do at your crags.

My advice would be to do nothing--enjoy climbing your new routes.

If he should chop your routes, DO NOT damage any of his. Simply replace yours as often as necessary. If your routes are good you will win in the end.

Sport climbers having a bolt war - now that's both rich and irony-laden.

So this guy has been developing this area for 15 years on his own dime and you just walk in and start throwing up squeeze jobs on his lines and then talking shit about him on the internet? Would it have hurt your ego that much to follow even one piece of his advice, just to get things off on the right foot? For instance, wouldn't it make sense to say to him "hey, I'm willing to compromise - let's have this route I put up on the main cliff share your anchor." You are the one that started this situation so it's on you to de-escalate it.

So this guy has been developing this area for 15 years on his own dime and you just walk in and start throwing up squeeze jobs on his lines and then talking shit about him on the internet? Would it have hurt your ego that much to follow even one piece of his advice, just to get things off on the right foot? For instance, wouldn't it make sense to say to him "hey, I'm willing to compromise - let's have this route I put up on the main cliff share your anchor." You are the one that started this situation so it's on you to de-escalate it.

And I DID try to compromise with him. He thought one of my routes had too much loose rock at the top. So I ended the route before the loose rock and I cleaned all the choss off the top.

It seems there is some confusion in my past involvement, so let me clear that up. I have also been developing the area for the last four years. In fact, I have been developing the area far more than he has in the last four years. I am at the crag more than any single person, everyone that climbs at the crag knows who I am, I have been climbing there 5x a week since late 2007. This is just the first time I am adding NEW] routes. I have replaced hundreds of bolts on old routes. I have been climbing over ten years, I have climbed a number of routes on El Cap, I have climbed at over 75 different destinations in the world, I am not some new gumbie with a hammer drill. We are both experienced in bolting routes in the area.

And I did try to compromise with him. He thought one of my routes had too much loose rock at the top. So I ended the route before the loose rock and I cleaned all the choss off the top. He wanted me to use the bolts he uses. So I agreed. He wanted me to glue reinforce holds instead of break them off, so I said okay. But its just one thing after another. I give an inch and he wants a mile, he wants the routes to be developed under his exact specification, as if I worked for him and he was paying me to develop routes or something.

It seems there is some confusion in my past involvement, so let me clear that up. I have also been developing the area for the last four years. In fact, I have been developing the area far more than he has in the last four years. I am at the crag more than any single person, everyone that climbs at the crag knows who I am, I have been climbing there 5x a week since late 2007. This is just the first time I am adding NEW] routes. I have replaced hundreds of bolts on old routes. I have been climbing over ten years, I have climbed a number of routes on El Cap, I have climbed at over 75 different destinations in the world, I am not some new gumbie with a hammer drill. We are both experienced in bolting routes in the area.

And I did try to compromise with him. He thought one of my routes had too much loose rock at the top. So I ended the route before the loose rock and I cleaned all the choss off the top. He wanted me to use the bolts he uses. So I agreed. He wanted me to glue reinforce holds instead of break them off, so I said okay. But its just one thing after another. I give an inch and he wants a mile, he wants the routes to be developed under his exact specification, as if I worked for him and he was paying me to develop routes or something.

here, there is an immediate assumption that you are the young whippersnapper and 'mark' is the old, respected but dated, once hard man. of course, rc.com is full of this set of climber, so they have created a whole back story of your story that justifies mark's bolt chopping threats.