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BD GridLock observed at multi pitch belay
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sittingduck


Feb 1, 2012, 9:20 AM
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BD GridLock observed at multi pitch belay
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Observed a team using the GridLock in this fashion. Much wrong going on here but they would have been better off with a regular screwgate carabiner imho.


sbaclimber


Feb 1, 2012, 11:09 AM
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Re: [sittingduck] BD GridLock observed at multi pitch belay [In reply to]
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sittingduck wrote:


Observed a team using the GridLock in this fashion. Much wrong going on here but they would have been better off with a regular screwgate carabiner imho.
I'll agree that whatever they were doing here was far from ideal, but I am curious as to how you think a 'regular' screwgate would've made the setup any better.


petsfed


Feb 1, 2012, 11:20 AM
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Re: [sittingduck] BD GridLock observed at multi pitch belay [In reply to]
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I don't understand the hate against the gridlock. If they'd used, for instance, an OP Jake in the same rig, they'd still be fucking stupid. If they'd attached themselves to the anchor with the rope and belayed from the waist, that'd be a lot better. And you know what? It doesn't matter what carabiner they used to do it!


acorneau


Feb 1, 2012, 2:52 PM
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Re: BD GridLock observed at multi pitch belay [In reply to]
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All this supposes that the diagram is exactly the scenario found and that the leader hasn't clipped any "Jesus nut" or any other gear yet.

If the belayer was hanging on the anchor and the leader has clipped at least one piece of pro then it shouldn't be a problem. Not how I would do it, but probably wouldn't kill anyone.

Edit for typo.


(This post was edited by acorneau on Feb 1, 2012, 2:53 PM)


sbaclimber


Feb 2, 2012, 12:50 AM
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Re: [acorneau] BD GridLock observed at multi pitch belay [In reply to]
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acorneau wrote:
All this supposes that the diagram is exactly the scenario found and that the leader hasn't clipped any "Jesus nut" or any other gear yet.
Ah, now I get it. Yeah, that would be really bad.
(and theoretically better with a normal locker)


billcoe_


Feb 6, 2012, 9:23 AM
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Re: [sittingduck] BD GridLock observed at multi pitch belay [In reply to]
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Only after I bought 2 ($10 bucks each on sale woot!) did I realize that grid locks are relatively lame. I have a smaller, lighter Fixe D twistlock that won't let the grigri slide over and lever the gate due to the twistlock being bigger than the grigri hole. Whereas a grigri can still cross load the gate of this carabiner. Meantime, you have to fiddlefuck to get it on, thus needlessly slowing you down on multipitch routes.

For some reason, when Metolius comes out with new stuff, it's pretty well vetted and working 100 percent perfect. With Black Diamond it seems to be a crap shoot and sometimes it's just total crap.

Anyone besides me remember the old reverse threaded biners from the 80's? I do. I almost died due to one unlocking, then opening, then locking in the open position after being locked and not touched again by me while I was jugging the chimney pitch on NW face of half dome. Later, on the ground, I was able to duplicate this interesting effect by shaking the thing.

They are not made any more for obvious reasons. It showed up supposedly being the best thing since sliced white bread and it was later just quietly taken off the market.


petsfed


Feb 6, 2012, 11:12 AM
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Re: [billcoe_] BD GridLock observed at multi pitch belay [In reply to]
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Honestly, I'm not terribly surprised that the GridLock doesn't play well with the Gri-Gri. BD and Petzl don't really like to talk to each other about these things. Furthermore, the principle concern is making it work better with tube style devices, not all belay devices ever.


donald949


Feb 6, 2012, 2:02 PM
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Re: [billcoe_] BD GridLock observed at multi pitch belay [In reply to]
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billcoe_ wrote:
Only after I bought 2 ($10 bucks each on sale woot!) did I realize that grid locks are relatively lame. I have a smaller, lighter Fixe D twistlock that won't let the grigri slide over and lever the gate due to the twistlock being bigger than the grigri hole. Whereas a grigri can still cross load the gate of this carabiner. Meantime, you have to fiddlefuck to get it on, thus needlessly slowing you down on multipitch routes.

For some reason, when Metolius comes out with new stuff, it's pretty well vetted and working 100 percent perfect. With Black Diamond it seems to be a crap shoot and sometimes it's just total crap.

Anyone besides me remember the old reverse threaded biners from the 80's? I do. I almost died due to one unlocking, then opening, then locking in the open position after being locked and not touched again by me while I was jugging the chimney pitch on NW face of half dome. Later, on the ground, I was able to duplicate this interesting effect by shaking the thing.

They are not made any more for obvious reasons. It showed up supposedly being the best thing since sliced white bread and it was later just quietly taken off the market.
I believe you are talking about one of these. Was my brother's at the time. Hasn't been used since.



bill413


Feb 7, 2012, 12:41 PM
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Re: [donald949] BD GridLock observed at multi pitch belay [In reply to]
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donald949 wrote:
billcoe_ wrote:
Only after I bought 2 ($10 bucks each on sale woot!) did I realize that grid locks are relatively lame. I have a smaller, lighter Fixe D twistlock that won't let the grigri slide over and lever the gate due to the twistlock being bigger than the grigri hole. Whereas a grigri can still cross load the gate of this carabiner. Meantime, you have to fiddlefuck to get it on, thus needlessly slowing you down on multipitch routes.

For some reason, when Metolius comes out with new stuff, it's pretty well vetted and working 100 percent perfect. With Black Diamond it seems to be a crap shoot and sometimes it's just total crap.

Anyone besides me remember the old reverse threaded biners from the 80's? I do. I almost died due to one unlocking, then opening, then locking in the open position after being locked and not touched again by me while I was jugging the chimney pitch on NW face of half dome. Later, on the ground, I was able to duplicate this interesting effect by shaking the thing.

They are not made any more for obvious reasons. It showed up supposedly being the best thing since sliced white bread and it was later just quietly taken off the market.
I believe you are talking about one of these. Was my brother's at the time. Hasn't been used since.
[image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=3095[/image]

Have to say that, at the time, I liked them. They were very light for a locker, and the design justifications made sense. But, yeah, I've seen them come unlocked; I've wondered whether a shallower thread pitch would have made them better.


tomcecil


Feb 8, 2012, 6:44 AM
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Re: [sittingduck] BD GridLock observed at multi pitch belay [In reply to]
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using ANY carabiner in the fashion shown in the diagram is dangerous in so many ways... triaxial loading, potential nylon on nylon etc..no carabiner or even set of carabiners should be used this way.
be careful out there!


billcoe_


Feb 8, 2012, 9:13 AM
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Re: [bill413] BD GridLock observed at multi pitch belay [In reply to]
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Donald has a pic of one right there. It came in a HMS style and large D.

bill413 wrote:
Have to say that, at the time, I liked them. They were very light for a locker, and the design justifications made sense. But, yeah, I've seen them come unlocked; I've wondered whether a shallower thread pitch would have made them better.

I liked them too till one almost got me killed. Then BD took them off the market with nary a comment. Did BD ever issue a warning or a recall? Not that I'm aware of. Donald up there, for instance, could go out today and get himself killed with his brothers reverse locking Black Diamond crab. (I'm sure that he wouldn't, but still......)


bill413


Feb 8, 2012, 9:58 AM
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Re: [billcoe_] BD GridLock observed at multi pitch belay [In reply to]
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billcoe_ wrote:
Donald has a pic of one right there. It came in a HMS style and large D.

bill413 wrote:
Have to say that, at the time, I liked them. They were very light for a locker, and the design justifications made sense. But, yeah, I've seen them come unlocked; I've wondered whether a shallower thread pitch would have made them better.

I liked them too till one almost got me killed. Then BD took them off the market with nary a comment. Did BD ever issue a warning or a recall? Not that I'm aware of. Donald up there, for instance, could go out today and get himself killed with his brothers reverse locking Black Diamond crab. (I'm sure that he wouldn't, but still......)

The unsupported story that I heard was...
A person who was being guided (presumptively in a group) had unfastened himself from whatever anchor system they had in order to answer a call of nature. When he came back, he did not clip in properly. Since the attachment was a reverse locker, there was a lawsuit based on the fact that it did not lock like normal lockers. BD (Chounard at that time) took it off the market because of that or similar suits.


donald949


Feb 9, 2012, 9:21 AM
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Re: [bill413] BD GridLock observed at multi pitch belay [In reply to]
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bill413 wrote:
billcoe_ wrote:
Donald has a pic of one right there. It came in a HMS style and large D.

bill413 wrote:
Have to say that, at the time, I liked them. They were very light for a locker, and the design justifications made sense. But, yeah, I've seen them come unlocked; I've wondered whether a shallower thread pitch would have made them better.

I liked them too till one almost got me killed. Then BD took them off the market with nary a comment. Did BD ever issue a warning or a recall? Not that I'm aware of. Donald up there, for instance, could go out today and get himself killed with his brothers reverse locking Black Diamond crab. (I'm sure that he wouldn't, but still......)

The unsupported story that I heard was...
A person who was being guided (presumptively in a group) had unfastened himself from whatever anchor system they had in order to answer a call of nature. When he came back, he did not clip in properly. Since the attachment was a reverse locker, there was a lawsuit based on the fact that it did not lock like normal lockers. BD (Chounard at that time) took it off the market because of that or similar suits.
It was my brothers from the mid 80's, as he got into climbing a couple years before me. He used it mostly for rapping, as at the time we belayed from the hip. Cragging as it were.
When the Lowe tubers first came out, that was the belay/rap device for me, I got a couple giant REI Pear quick lockers. Those babies were stout. The Chounard was not. One thing I don't like how the sleeve really doesnt keep the gate pin in the notch real tight. That is, even locked the gate can move a little. Also, it wouldn't take much of a hit on the gate to tear that sleeve off and completely open the gate. The gate being a good little lever to rip the sleeve. Unsure
Anyrate, its a museum piece now.


billcoe_


Feb 9, 2012, 8:51 PM
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Re: [bill413] BD GridLock observed at multi pitch belay [In reply to]
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bill413 wrote:
The unsupported story that I heard was...
A person who was being guided (presumptively in a group) had unfastened himself from whatever anchor system they had in order to answer a call of nature. When he came back, he did not clip in properly. Since the attachment was a reverse locker, there was a lawsuit based on the fact that it did not lock like normal lockers. BD (Chounard at that time) took it off the market because of that or similar suits.


Oh wow, that explains a lot! I'd always hear he'd not reconnected his harness. Never made a lot of sense.

Thanks, I'd buy that explanation first:-0


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