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bluefoxicy
Apr 1, 2012, 1:35 AM
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Wondering if there's a reason specifically to not get the Vapor over the Thunder. Like is the Vapor more advanced and going to be more difficult without developed skills? Is it a matter of applicability to particular uses?
I'm planning on taking a class on this at Earth Treks and seeing where it goes. I'm pretty sure I want something with a Vibram XS Edge sole, but that's about it. Seeking the best technical advantage I can get at a reasonable cost... not looking to buy something for now with plans to get something not much more expensive later; I hate expensive upgrade paths, start on the good stuff.
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Kartessa
Apr 1, 2012, 2:21 AM
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No matter what you buy as a first pair of shoes, you're going to replace them in +/-6 months.
Before you get your heart set on one shoe or another just based on shit you read on the Internet, go try a few pairs on and settle for the pair that fits best.
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shockabuku
Apr 1, 2012, 3:05 AM
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In general buying quality is a good idea but don't spend the extra on a pair of more advanced shoes than you need as a beginner. Climbing shoes are a consumable, they wear out. You can get them resoled some number of times, but your first pair just isn't going to last that long. You'll wear through them more quickly as a beginner.
Also, as you get more accustomed to wearing climbing shoes you'll probably change the fit as well.
I think it's nice to have a pair of more comfortably fitting shoes in the closet to wear on long easy days of climbing and a more aggressive pair for when you're pushing your degree of difficulty. Which is to say, buy a beginner pair now and get a more aggressive pair later when you might find some advantage to them.
At any rate, I would recommend renting for a while before buying to help you get some idea of how you want them to fit before you buy a pair. The Vapor is a pretty nice shoe though, for me, a little more round in the outside edge than I find optimal. It's definitely a more aggressive shoe than the Thunder. The Thunder is a beginner shoe that should be adequate for about your first year, maybe your entire climbing career.
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bluefoxicy
Apr 1, 2012, 3:16 AM
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So in other words these don't last long like my bike shoes--I'll probably have the same cycling shoes I got last year for 5-10 years--and I'm better off buying two pairs of adequate shoes than one pair of high-end shoes that I don't yet know how to take advantage of. Is that it?
Honestly the Thunder got my attention because it's a cheap but seemingly high quality entry point. The Vapor got my attention because, as I said, I hate upgrade paths and hate replacing good gear with better gear ... buy better gear outright. But if the good gear is going to wear out multiple times a year I may as well start cheap, as you say.
Renting seems like a decent idea. I tend to avoid wearing shoes other people have worn (and heavily sweat in). I know there's no real sanitary issue here--oh sure it's dirty, but that's not a health issue and I'm not getting diseases that way--but it's a personal issue, i.e. it's gross. I won't have a nervous breakdown over it, but I'll avoid it.
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redlude97
Apr 1, 2012, 3:38 AM
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Go with the thunders. A flat shoe is more comfortable and sufficient for progressing through the moderate grades. The Thunder also has a much thicker sole (6-8mm?) compared to the thin 4mm sole on the vapor, so the vapor will wear out much quicker
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Colinhoglund
Apr 1, 2012, 4:02 AM
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What they said . . .
But in addition, the vapor will hurt if you buy it anywhere close to the correct size as a beginner. After 5 years of climbing and many pairs of shoes, I'm amazed at the difference between what is comfortable now compared to in the beginning. An aggressive shoe takes a fair bit of getting used to, and the extra discomfort will negate any extra climbing performance. If you buy it big and comfy, then its no better than a thunder anyways since the aggressive shape wont be maintained when worn loose. You'll wear the thunders out before you out grow them technically.
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Kartessa
Apr 1, 2012, 4:08 AM
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Thunders are 4mm xs edge just like the vapors.
The difference is that the vapors are more curved, tensioned, and asymmetric than the thunders... Not to mention, more expensive
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redlude97
Apr 1, 2012, 5:39 AM
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Kartessa wrote: Thunders are 4mm xs edge just like the vapors. The difference is that the vapors are more curved, tensioned, and asymmetric than the thunders... Not to mention, more expensive
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bluefoxicy
Apr 16, 2012, 12:51 AM
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Thanks all, I ended up going with La Sportiva Nago with the XS Edge sole, which seemed like an investment along the lines of the Scarpa Thunders. They're fully re-soleable and I find that they're much better than the rentals at the gym (I got a size too small but experienced severe toe box pain in half an hour, so I went up a half size and had to wait to receive new ones). That XS Edge sole is extremely stiff and sticky, whereas the Trex sole on the shoes at the gym are much less grippy and much more flexible.
But I'm a Vibram fan anyway.
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