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I'm new, but this setup seems unsafe

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billcoe_

Nov 28, 2012, 6:25 PM
Post #26 of 29 (1673 views)
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Registered: Jun 30, 2002
Posts: 4694

Re: [jeskandarian] I'm new, but this setup seems unsafe [In reply to] Report this Post Average: (2 ratings)	Can't Post

You are wise to question that bullshit. Don't worry about being paranoid, your very survival is at stake. All you have to do is scan down @ 6 catagories below this on the main page and peruse the "Accident and Incident Analysis" threads, or the one under that called "In Memory Of" to see way too many needless "my belay device/GriGri failed and climbing partner is now dead" bullshit whining.

The device didn't fail, the belayer did. I expect you'll be seeing it at this place soon enough if they already haven't had an incident. An astounding amount of other threads on those topics posted on RC.com are also tragedies caused by human error and stupidity, often a couple of errors chained together. Minimizing errors/mistakes and learning everything you can will help improve you odds and is the ONLY way to roll.

Despite being new at this you are well on your way to being a safe climber with your mindset. I don't tie in with Noobs unless I'm teaching but I'd make an exception for you or a person with the mindset you have.

bearbreeder

Nov 28, 2012, 6:35 PM
Post #27 of 29 (1667 views)
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Registered: Feb 2, 2009
Posts: 1960

Re: [jeskandarian] I'm new, but this setup seems unsafe [In reply to] Report this Post Average: (0 ratings)	Can't Post

jeskandarian wrote:

No, just a thread lock carabiner for both the belay-device-to-anchor and the climber-to-rope connections. And I do see the point that this is probably more dependable than a first-time user's knot yet still questionable.

I imagine it is a difficult balancing act for any gym owner to balance 100% safety and the need to provide a welcoming environment for beginners and kids.

this is not "safe" ... adding either 2 opposed screwgates or a 3 stage locker and another (locking or not) biner doesnt cost much more ...

nor does it take much more time or effort to use

single screwgates for attachment as sole attachement to the harness are not recommended at all by any manufacturer or other such i know of as there have been cases of the screw jiggling loose or people forgetting to lock it ...

if the belay device is going to be only directly attached to the ground it should be at the very minimum something like a maillon that is wrench tightened, so it cant come undone easily ... but they would be going against trango/petzls recommended usage which is a bad thing fro a gym with liability IMO

so to summarize

1. they are not using the devices as recommended in a setting with newbies, screaming kids, etc ...

2. the are using a SINGLE SCREWGATE locker as the only attachment point to the climbing harness

3. you see serious issues with the usage of the devices by the people and you a havent seen staff correcting them?

have a quiet word with the owner/manager ...

if they dont care .. id find a different gym ...

j_ung

Nov 28, 2012, 7:20 PM
Post #28 of 29 (1638 views)
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Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690

Re: [jeskandarian] I'm new, but this setup seems unsafe [In reply to] Report this Post Average: (0 ratings)	Can't Post

jeskandarian wrote:

I've only been climbing a very short time, but I'm a bit of a nut when it comes to learning and doing new things the correct way.

A new climbing gym opened near me. From what I know, this setup is just wrong and really promoting bad practices/habits. They are OK with me belaying my kid the way I was taught (not using their gear) so I generally keep my mouth shut.

Here's their top rope setup:
- Top rope wall but using two chains up top as opposed to a couple of carabiners or a pipe
- Climbers don't tie up. Just use a locking carabiner that is already tied up.
- For the belay they have a Cinch attached to a floor anchor at approximately waist height
- They teach people to just 'take up the slack' on the brake side and then lower their partner by just using the lever. Zero talk of holding the brake side rope or anything crazy like that.

A Cinch/GriGri just isn't supposed to be used in that way, is it? I'd NEVER let someone belay me on just the locking mechanism of the GriGri. Also, I've always taught my kid that the release lever is just that, a release, and she should control the belay with the brake side rope tension. Controlling descent speed with the lever only is just too touchy.

I cringe when I see kids leaving all kinds of slack for their friends and do say something to those people to at least minimize the slack and maybe at least give some thought to holding the brake line.

Am I just a paranoid pain in the ass?

Just an opinion, mind you, but the major issue here appears to be the climbing gym's disinterest in creating climbers. They've dumbed the belayer-climber relationship down to a pony ride, during which they've traded competence for reliance on equipment. That's not exactly a recipe for awesomness. It's inherently unsafe on a short-term and long-term level, as well as, I imagine, a pretty inane business model.

Granted, my info here is third hand. Which gym is this?

jeskandarian

Nov 28, 2012, 7:42 PM
Post #29 of 29 (1623 views)
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Registered: Nov 27, 2012
Posts: 5

Re: [j_ung] I'm new, but this setup seems unsafe [In reply to] Report this Post Average: (0 ratings)	Can't Post

Honestly I'd rather not say. Like I said I'm new to this and I'm not here to sabotage someone's livelihood. I'm also not sure of the etiquette. The folks running this place have many years of experience which I don't.

In my limited experience at Brooklyn Boulders and Earth Treks in Rockville they are very concerned with safety and teaching proper usage of their gear and I've seen many people called out for bad/dangerous techniques.

This gym is fine with me using the gear and techniques I am comfortable with when top roping with my kids and friends and it's a chill environment with most people bouldering.

Rest assured it's nowhere near the East Coast.

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