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winkwinklambonini
Jan 18, 2003, 7:43 PM
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Registered: Sep 17, 2002
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In order to take a private trip down the Grand Canyon, you have to wait, and wait for a permit. this is true of many rivers. this is because there are so many people wanting to use little space.
Like rafting, climbing has limited resources, and it's growing in popularity. I dread this summer when I'll have only weekends to climb. will this happen to us?
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micronut
Jan 18, 2003, 8:28 PM
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mhr2000,
your logic is so deeply flawed I don't even want to get into it.
Winkwink, who gets the money collected for the boating permits? I'll bet it's some friend of the Bushes.
Land of the Free, not FEE!
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winkwinklambonini
Jan 18, 2003, 8:31 PM
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nut you know how to hit me where it hurts don't you! Maybe if it starts looking like there is no other way, climbers could start a system to self regulate themselves......even without fees.
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rprp
Jan 18, 2003, 10:13 PM
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Registered: Dec 27, 2002
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So lets see, one such system is: I climb, you stay home... But may be you don't like that one.
What if we just started a PR bliz to tell everybody that climbing sucked? Then maybe they wouldn't put climbers in TV ads and the like.
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winkwinklambonini
Jan 19, 2003, 1:28 AM
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Or this:
trad climbing is dangerous, and since you shouldn't fall, it isn't fun. go bouldering and sport climbing!
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rockhugger
Jan 19, 2003, 6:53 PM
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There are ways of getting around the fees,alt. camp sites,alpine starts when the park people aren't around.When I go camping On the North Shore of Lake Superior I don't stay at the pay campsites ,I just go into the National forest land and camp there.No noise and it's cheap.I did stay at Seneca Shadows campground once in WestVirginia cost like 7.00 and the firewood was 5.00.I will never do that again.Whoops,got off the topic,never bothered to get a permit anywhere for climbing,nobody checks in Minnesota.
[ This Message was edited by: rockhugger on 2003-01-19 10:57 ]
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gawd
Jan 19, 2003, 11:10 PM
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there already are limitations on climbing. any federal land can and will be managed in accordance with the wilderness act of 1967. and if quotas are needed to maintain a healthy enviroment then they will be put into place.
also note that commerical rafting is a huge drain on the colorado rivers eco system. and in an effort to mitigate it the government has paced quotas.
yes someday certain cragging area will require permits and fees.
the best way to slow this process is to reduce our personal impact.
do not bring dogs whom are not socialized(almost all of them)
do not bolt routes
do not use chalk
do not be abusive or elitest to other users. their right to enjoy the natual beauty in the world is just as valid as yours
pick up all trash and never leave your own
maintain a good relationship with land managers. say "hi" to them. dicuss how you and others can help the ecology of the area. be proactive!
be responsible.
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pancaketom
Jan 19, 2003, 11:29 PM
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Take a look at how many permits are set aside for commercial rafting trips and how many go to private trips, and you can see why the wait is over 10 years for the colorado river in the GC. I definitely don't want to have to wait 10 years for a permit to climb el cap while the motorized guided trips get 90% of the permits (not that that is likely, but that is the direction things are going).
There are already peak fees for mountains in the USA. (rainier, adams, st. helens, shasta, denali, and probably others). for the first 4 they charge you simply to go above a certain elevation. Unfortunately they have a monopoly on these peaks.
It looks like fees will come. This is very unfortunate as I see it. As long as the government cuts the budget and tries to make it up by charging users (and then building more expensive things and raising the fees until it is like disneyland) this will only get worse. Luckily there are still plenty of places where they don't do this yet, and more places where they don't enforce it.
Unless you are geographically challenged, then walking an extra hour can almost always get you away from the crowds.
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