|
freshblade
Feb 12, 2003, 6:28 PM
Post #1 of 28
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 30, 2003
Posts: 6
|
there seem to be people on this site who literally know everything. i was told a while ago but have forgotton. why is it called sandbagging?
cheers for the answer oh wise sages.
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Feb 12, 2003, 6:34 PM
Post #2 of 28
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
"Sandbagging" is a poker term, meaning to represent your hand as being weaker than it is. It's not much of a leap to apply the term to climbing; that is, to represent a route as being easier than it is. Now, where poker players got the term...I don't know.
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
climblouisiana
Feb 12, 2003, 6:37 PM
Post #3 of 28
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 3, 2002
Posts: 506
|
It's like in those old films when someone gets tricked into walking under a sandbag that holds up a curtain in a theater. The villain drops the sandbag on their head. Probably most used in Laurel and Hardy films or Three Stooges.
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Feb 12, 2003, 6:51 PM
Post #4 of 28
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
Cool. So it originated in old movies, got picked up by poker players, and applied to rock climbing.
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
lox
Feb 12, 2003, 6:54 PM
Post #5 of 28
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 2, 2002
Posts: 2307
|
Because teabagging was already taken.
|
|
|
|
|
climblouisiana
Feb 12, 2003, 6:55 PM
Post #6 of 28
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 3, 2002
Posts: 506
|
I'm not 100% sure if that's really how it originated but it sure sounds good.
|
|
|
|
|
godzi11a
Feb 12, 2003, 6:55 PM
Post #7 of 28
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 12, 2003
Posts: 1
|
"sandbagging" in general means making something seem less than it is. I thought it came from when people put down sandbags to stop floodwaters. I'm not sure how it relates to climbing.
|
|
|
|
|
arrettinator
Feb 12, 2003, 7:07 PM
Post #8 of 28
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 30, 2002
Posts: 8522
|
Sandbagging from dictionary.com
|
|
|
|
|
highballer
Feb 12, 2003, 7:24 PM
Post #9 of 28
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 21, 2002
Posts: 25
|
I just heard the term last week at a comp. They said no "sandbagging" , meaning you should'nt drop to a lower category just to clean up on the prizes.
|
|
|
|
|
wandt
Feb 12, 2003, 7:35 PM
Post #10 of 28
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 3, 2000
Posts: 341
|
Look at a sandbag. It looks just like a nice, soft pillow, doesn't it? Now take your shoe off and kick it.
|
|
|
|
|
bigo
Feb 12, 2003, 7:48 PM
Post #11 of 28
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 11, 2002
Posts: 237
|
I found this from word detective. See thud.
http://www.word-detective.com/120398.html#sandbag BBCode u1 Start -->
[ This Message was edited by: bigo on 2003-02-12 11:51 ]
|
|
|
|
|
bradhill
Feb 12, 2003, 7:51 PM
Post #12 of 28
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 22, 2002
Posts: 486
|
I think it's origins are older than that, from the days when muggers would hit people with a sap - a sand filled bag. From there it migrated to poker...
|
|
|
|
|
kcrag
Feb 12, 2003, 8:09 PM
Post #13 of 28
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 27, 2002
Posts: 599
|
Well,
I heard it was from the earlier times during monsoon seasons in India, people tied sandbags to their feet in order to keep from being swept away by flood waters.
|
|
|
|
|
reborne
Feb 12, 2003, 8:12 PM
Post #14 of 28
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 24, 2003
Posts: 190
|
bradhil you read the one above you and acted like you didnt shame on you
[ This Message was edited by: reborne on 2003-02-12 12:12 ]
|
|
|
|
|
dingus
Feb 12, 2003, 8:25 PM
Post #15 of 28
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
|
Surprised that every one has gotten this all wrong! Allusions to poker? Nonsense! Sand bags during a flood... don't make me lol!
Tieing bags of dirt to Indian feet? Don't swallow that! Soft / hard? Maybe your heads!
Here's the real scope (tm)...
Sandbagging started, as so many of our fine traditions, at the Gunks in the late 50's. It seems the Appies dissatisfaction with the Vulgarians rose to new heights, literally, in that some of these Appies tried to rise to the new level of climbing then being accomplished by the leading climbers like Gran and McCarthy.
The Vulgarians, upon seeing their old foes summoning the nerve to actually try some of their routes, invented this time honored practice out of desperation. Originally, it had a much more literal connotation. Gran I think, was perched atop Skytop one day and saw some Appie attempting to repeat one of his lines. Success was near, or so the story goes. Desperate, Gran filled an old sock he had at hand with some dirt and sand, and threw it at the climber.
It failed of couse. Gran was a much better climber than a baseball player. He missed. But the term stuck. We now use the concept euphemistically, to decribe attempts to thwart success on a climb we hold dear. Gran, to his credit, willingly talked about and demonstrated for any curious onlooker, his sandbagging attempt, with as much theatrics and hyperbole as he could summon. Thus, incidently, was born "The Move" too.
Sand bagging.
DMT
|
|
|
|
|
mreardon
Feb 12, 2003, 11:08 PM
Post #16 of 28
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2002
Posts: 1337
|
I have no idea if that story is correct or not, but I'm such a fan of the Vulgarians that I'm willing to spray it as being so! Thanks for the story/info!
|
|
|
|
|
micronut
Feb 12, 2003, 11:42 PM
Post #17 of 28
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 11, 2002
Posts: 1760
|
I thought it went like this: You start up the climb that suposedly is 5.8, but someone laid a sandbag on you, so with the extra weight, it feels like 5.10
|
|
|
|
|
bigo
Feb 13, 2003, 1:01 AM
Post #18 of 28
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 11, 2002
Posts: 237
|
here's something from wordwizard
"
This word was originally used as the name of a weapon - the poor man's version of a morning star.
In early use, a bag of sand attached by a string to the end of a staff; also, one similarly attached to the arm of a quintain. In recent use (chiefly U.S.), a weapon used by ruffians, consisting of a long cylindrical bag (sometimes an eelskin) filled with sand, by which a heavy blow may be struck without leaving a mark.
1594 1st Pt. Contention D 1 b, Enter at one doore the Armourer..with a drum before him, and his staffe with a sand~bag fastened to it, and at the other doore, his man with a drum and sand-bagge.
It doesn't appear in its verb form of hitting someone until quite recently.
To fell with a blow from a sandbag. Also fig., to bully or coerce; to criticize or lambaste.
1887 Courier-Jrnl. (Louisville, Kentucky) 2 Feb. 6/2 The next day Claytor turned up at Central Station with a fairy story that he had been sand-bagged on his way home.
Response from Doug Gilbert (Chai Yi - Taiwan
"
|
|
|
|
|
kcrag
Feb 13, 2003, 1:14 AM
Post #19 of 28
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 27, 2002
Posts: 599
|
Oh come on, guys! No one buys the Indian flood story?! That's what I'm sticking to. Or, maybe the mugger thing... I like that one, too.
|
|
|
|
|
cookiecrumb
Feb 13, 2003, 1:34 AM
Post #20 of 28
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 6, 2002
Posts: 55
|
As per dingus...
" We now use the concept euphemistically, to decribe attempts to thwart success on a climb we hold dear."
So does giving a route a lower rating than it deserves thwart success? I suppose one might underestimate the difficulty based on the rating, only to fail at the crux due to insufficient planning. Is that the logic??
[ This Message was edited by: cookiecrumb on 2003-02-12 17:34 ]
|
|
|
|
|
climbsomething
Feb 13, 2003, 1:45 AM
Post #21 of 28
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 30, 2002
Posts: 8588
|
The version I've heard is a lot like micronut's- imagine doing the climb you're on but with sandbags tied to your wrists and ankles.
|
|
|
|
|
randonnee
Feb 13, 2003, 2:30 AM
Post #22 of 28
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 22, 2003
Posts: 14
|
The term ‘sandbagging’ is an old phrase used in sailboat racing. For trial runs, the crew would stow extra ballast on board -- like sandbags -- to slow the boat down a little. Then the night before the big race, they’d remove the sandbags, adding a critical knot or two in speed. Thus they 'sandbagged' the competition. This was an ideal way to hedge your wagers on race day. I hung with some sailboat racers years ago and they used the term and explained it this way. But maybe they were BS’ing me -- they did consume a lot of grog that night. This phrase is also used in poker, as jt512 pointed out. Same strategy: decieving the competition.
--ron--
[ This Message was edited by: randonnee on 2003-02-12 18:33 ]
[ This Message was edited by: randonnee on 2003-02-12 18:41 ]
|
|
|
|
|
one900johnnyk
Feb 13, 2003, 3:07 AM
Post #23 of 28
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 23, 2002
Posts: 2381
|
to sandbag is to misrepresent something (usually underrepresenting your abilities)... it is a word. it means something. i always thought that was all? maybe a climber once upon a time had a good command of the english language... is that possible?
|
|
|
|
|
climbsomething
Feb 13, 2003, 3:13 AM
Post #24 of 28
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 30, 2002
Posts: 8588
|
johnnyk: NO heheh
|
|
|
|
|
jgill
Feb 13, 2003, 3:42 AM
Post #25 of 28
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 18, 2002
Posts: 653
|
I always thought "sandbagging" came from the sandbags used on stages, as someone has mentioned, but the sailing origin is intriguing.
What a pleasure to see Art Gran's name brought up! I knew Art in the later 1950s, and took a photo of him onetime demonstrating "The Move" on the porch of the Ranger's Cabin at Jenny Lake. What a character! Is he still around?
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
