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naturalhigh
Dec 11, 2001, 9:44 PM
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Just wondering what knot people choose to use to tie two ropes together for a double length rappel. I've seen several different setups at the crags and I have read several indepth knot-strength reports. Interestingly enough, (and somewhat counterintuitive to me), is that a simple overhand knot (with adequate tails, is recommended by some for rappeling. Why? Aparently it "inverts" less than a fig-eight (inverting eats up the tail ends), and it lies flat againts the rock when you pull it down, lessening the chance of a snag. I've also seen used the carrick bend, finished on either side with triple fishermans (becuz the knot doesn't work unless the ends are seized).
Opinions?
PS- What's a tape knot? Is that just another name for the water knot?
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talons05
Dec 11, 2001, 10:15 PM
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I use two opposed double or triple fisherman's knots.
AW
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rrrADAM
Dec 11, 2001, 10:45 PM
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I use an overhand knot, this is a low profile knot that will always clear a ledge.
I also tie rap knots (tripple fisherman's) on each end individually.
~Adam
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dustinap
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Dec 11, 2001, 11:22 PM
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When I first started setting up TR's, I always tied 8's on a bit to equalize my webbing.
The guy who taught me how to trad climb ties overhand to equalize his cord.
Why is one better then the other? seems like overhadn would be better?
Also, no one ties in with overhand knots to their harnesses I've noticed. why is this?
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jumaringjeff
Dec 15, 2001, 12:49 AM
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I choose 8's rather than overhands because overhands are hell to untie if they've been heavily weighted. I like to use the double bowline occasionally, but you've got to be careful; it's easy to tie it backwards and end up with a slipknot. And make sure you back that sucker up!!
Happy jumaring,
jj
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graniteboy
Dec 15, 2001, 3:02 AM
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I use the fisherman's for rapping, backed up. but sometimes I use the double 8 for rapping. The reason U don't use an overhand for tying in is 1) as stated above, U can'na untie the damn thing, and, more importantly, 2) it's significantly weaker than a fig 8.
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climber1
Dec 20, 2001, 5:48 AM
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double or triple fishermans's knot, backed up with an follow through.
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rrrADAM
Dec 20, 2001, 5:56 AM
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Reason 8 instead of the overhand for tying in...
The smaller a knot is the weaker the rope in the knot, short radius turns weaken the cord ONLY when tied.
An 8 has large radius turns, so stronger knot.
If you load a rope till it fails, it will fail in the knot.
rrrADAM
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camhead
Dec 20, 2001, 5:57 AM
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I'm kind of confused about Oozingpustule's assertion that the fig-8 will invert itself. What exactly do you mean?
I've always used a fig-8 with a double fisherman's backup. The Falcon Guide on knots recommends it as well.
And I'm still alive.
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camhead
Dec 20, 2001, 5:58 AM
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[ This Message was edited by: camhead on 2001-12-19 22:12 ]
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dhoyne
Dec 20, 2001, 2:25 PM
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When using 2 ropes of equal size, THE BEST knot (as far as knot strength) to tie is a square knot. Finish off your tails with a double or triple fisherman's.
Pop quiz -- how many of you have pulled the wrong end of the rope once you've gotten to the bottom and jammed your knot into the rap rings?
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newbieclimber
Dec 20, 2001, 5:32 PM
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when the ends are pointing in the same direction and there is no backup the knot is generally called a euro death knot. (it doesnt matter whether you tie it with a figure 8 or a simple overhand.) thats because loading the rope pulls the knot apart rather than cinching the knot tighter. some climbers thought that if an overhand was ok for rapping then a figure 8 would be safer. but as mentioned above when either knot is loaded with higher and higher forces it eventually starts inverting. tests show that the figure eight eats up more of the tail when it inverts and therefore fails sooner than the overhand.
use a euro death knot(overhand version) if your rope might get stuck. dont tie backups on the ends as rrradam suggested because it just defeats the purpose. your rope is more likely to get stuck in a crack with more knots. otherwise use a triple fishermans or other bomb proof knot.
"PS- What's a tape knot? Is that just another name for the water knot?"
yes
mike
[ This Message was edited by: newbieclimber on 2001-12-21 10:55 ]
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froggy
Dec 20, 2001, 5:52 PM
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I use the Figure 8 Follow Through to tie two ropes together.
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beyond_gravity
Jan 3, 2002, 12:16 AM
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Theres not exsactly a perfered knot, as long as it holds, its good. I juse a doubble fishermens knote, mainly because it looks the coolist
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five_twelve_gonnabe
Jan 3, 2002, 12:45 AM
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I always use the triple fisherman's knot. If the ropes are the same diameter you could use either a triple fisherman's or a figure-8. However, I would not recommend the figure-8 for ropes of different diameters.
Cheers,
five_twelve_gonna_be
[ This Message was edited by: five_twelve_gonnabe on 2002-01-02 16:47 ]
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rrrADAM
Jan 3, 2002, 7:06 AM
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re the Pop Quiz:
"Pop quiz -- how many of you have pulled the wrong end of the rope once you've gotten to the bottom and jammed your knot into the rap rings?"
I have... Had to Aid up a spoprt/bolt ladder on a 2 pitch .12c to retrieve both my ropes.
An embarassed,
rrrADAM
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beyond_gravity
Jan 5, 2002, 3:57 AM
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It kinks the dink outta my rope
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