|
dirtineye
Jun 13, 2003, 3:36 PM
Post #1 of 160
(14376 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2003
Posts: 5590
|
OK, that's one more death from head injury and no helment was worn.
Gear pulls.
Holds break.
People make mistakes.
Even experienced climbers can have bad luck or use bad judgement. It only has to happen once.
Your bare head will not sustain much of a blow without serious consequences.
A helment costs at most about 75 bucks. How much is your life worth?
A helment can turn a serious injury situation into a scratch on your helment and a tale to tell over beer.
And just so this post is relevant to the forum, If I had not had my helment on last weekend, you might be reading about me, but all I have to report is a skint knee, elbow and hand. I wish there were more accident reports like that and fewer serious head injuries and deaths.
|
|
|
|
|
neadamthal
Jun 13, 2003, 3:40 PM
Post #2 of 160
(14376 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 2, 2002
Posts: 245
|
i agree with you buddy. helmets are vital. i see people leading without them and shudder to think of the possibilities.
just one thing. i'm sure others will point this out too - its spelled HELMET, not HELMENT (unless you were going for some sort of pun there ;) thought it was a typo at first, but you didn't spell it any other way!
cheers
|
|
|
|
|
interruptor
Jun 13, 2003, 4:01 PM
Post #3 of 160
(14376 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 21, 2002
Posts: 189
|
Yeah, but... you know... a helmet makes you look really stupid! It's like... you know... you're afraid or something! It's really sissi of you to use a helmet... you know?...
Like... nobody wears a helmet at the crag... and the helmet is huge, it makes the rest of your body look small and weak...
If you were climbing and rocks were falling... or worse, rocks were raining, that would be cool because you could knock them away as you climbed! That would be cool!... You know?...
it's like... you're surrounded by all those strong climbers with no helmets and you look like a wimp with your helmet on... you know? And i feel SO inferior...
:shock:
|
|
|
|
|
czarcastic
Jun 13, 2003, 4:14 PM
Post #4 of 160
(14376 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 16, 2003
Posts: 64
|
Like I hope your joking Interruptor, because you sound like a teenager new to climbing that wants to look good rather than climb smart. Try using Like more when you like post, it makes you sound like really smart, and people will like, think your really cool because you don't like, wear one of those helmets.
Helmets save people lives and if you have climbed for any length of time longer than a year, you would realize that.
If you were joking, then ignore.
|
|
|
|
|
alpinerock
Jun 13, 2003, 4:25 PM
Post #5 of 160
(14376 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 17, 2003
Posts: 600
|
People, listen to this guy he knows what he's talking about. At some of the places that I climb at its not, unusual for a grapefruit sized rock to fall every other climb. USE A HELMET IT MIGHT SAVE YOUR LIFE SOMEDAY!!!
|
|
|
|
|
drkodos
Jun 13, 2003, 5:39 PM
Post #6 of 160
(14376 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 21, 2002
Posts: 2935
|
Helmets don't save sh*t.
A microwave block is going to drive that plastic crap right into the cerebellum.....
Just more cleaning for the Funeral Director, that's all a helmet is.
Don't tell me about ice climbing, I know about it.
I'm talkin bout cragging.
Making the right decisions will keep you safer than any helmet.
|
|
|
|
|
hooker
Jun 13, 2003, 5:41 PM
Post #7 of 160
(14376 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 22, 2003
Posts: 173
|
In reply to: Making the right decisions will keep you safer than any helmet.
Absolutely.
Most who wear helmets do so from dogma, with no real input from their own brains.
Do you brain-bucket lovers where them while driving, too? Statiscally much more dangerous than climbing.......
|
|
|
|
|
dirtineye
Jun 13, 2003, 6:01 PM
Post #8 of 160
(14376 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2003
Posts: 5590
|
Yep, I have missed it all my life LOL. But, you can get 5000+ hits for helment on the internet, so at least I have a lot of company LOL.
I left out rock fall as a reason, the guy talking about all that rock fall reminded me though, that Sunday I not only took a fair fall (I have no idea if my head hit anything cause I had my HELMET on LOL), but there were also several rocks that went whizzing by.
Making the right decisions has no effect on rock fall or any other head whacking event in climbing that can't be anticipated. That should be obvious.
How some people can advocate not wearing a helmet in the face of so many head injuries that result in death is something I'll never understand.
|
|
|
|
|
nickb
Jun 13, 2003, 6:21 PM
Post #9 of 160
(14376 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2002
Posts: 72
|
Helmets.... Hmm. I am torn on the helmet issue, sometimes I wear one and sometimes I don't. Back in the day nobody wore helmets except on alpine climbs, nobody wore a bike helmet either. The feel of the wind on your head, it just feels better not to wear one. When it is straight up, straight forward sport climbing I tend not to wear one. On routes with people above or any loose rock or corners or ledges to hit, I have been tending to wear one almost all the time. They are light and I'm sure I'll get used to it someday. I'm not sure how many of you can claim to have had a helmet save your life, but I know I have when a baseball from space plugged me dead center on the helmet while soloing ice on an alpine climb. Those old Joe Brown super helmets were tuff.
|
|
|
|
|
jumpingrock
Jun 13, 2003, 6:32 PM
Post #10 of 160
(14376 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 5692
|
Wtf is wrong with you ppl? Helmets now adays are light, and well ventalated. But heck I guess its your brain that we are talking about. I just know that when that 1/1000000 chance that a stray rock falls my head will be fine and you will have a nice dent. Of course microwave size rocks will still do in the head regardless, but just like a head on collision on the highway will kill you seatbelt or not you still wear your seatbelt.
Once again I stress its your head. If you don't have a brain to protect don't wear a helmet.
|
|
|
|
|
drkodos
Jun 13, 2003, 6:45 PM
Post #11 of 160
(14376 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 21, 2002
Posts: 2935
|
Helmets today are a joke.
They don't protect the most exposed and dangerous part of the head, where the cranium connects to the spine.
Helmets are marketing. They do not provide the protection you think.
Those Petzl helmets are a joke. Light and completely useless unless you get hit by a leaf.....
Don't believe the hype.
Only one person saw the Emperor's clothes for what they really were....the masses are asses.
|
|
|
|
|
curt
Jun 13, 2003, 6:58 PM
Post #12 of 160
(14376 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 18275
|
Although drkodos is taking an extreme position, he is more right than wrong, in my opinion.
Climbing helmets are NOT designed to protect you in a fall. Period. They are designed to protect your head from relatively small falling objects. If you want to protect your head from injury sustained in a fall--wear a motorcycle helmet climbing. Not too practical for various reasons.
In reply to: Making the right decisions has no effect on rock fall or any other head whacking event in climbing that can't be anticipated. That should be obvious.
Curt
|
|
|
|
|
dirtineye
Jun 13, 2003, 7:21 PM
Post #13 of 160
(14376 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2003
Posts: 5590
|
Not to put too fine a point on it , but the rock that came whizzing down where I was on sunday came from a broken hold on one of the most famous routes in the carolinas.
YOu really think thise petzl helments are a joke? Wanna let someone smack you in the head with a wall at say, 5 mph while a) wearing one, b) not wearing one? The amount of damage those puny hats will absorb before failure is enough to save your head a lot of the time. Sure if you hit too hard your helment will do no good, so what? A bullet proof vest will not stop an armor piercing round either. Would you want the vest in a gunfight or not?
The back of the head down low where the spinal column and skull connect is NOT where your head will make contact most of the time. The front, back sides and top are where you will hit usually.
There's a nice survey I'm willing to bet a certain group would want to participate in, if they were still alive. If the folks that died from head injuries could come back to life and repeat their accident, I wonder how many would choose to wear a helment on the second go-round?
|
|
|
|
|
drkodos
Jun 13, 2003, 7:28 PM
Post #14 of 160
(14376 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 21, 2002
Posts: 2935
|
In reply to: Making the right decisions has no effect on rock fall or any other head whacking event in climbing that can't be anticipated. That should be obvious.
Understand this:
don't climb near loose rock. That's called making a decision.
If you are not smart enough to figure it out, then wear a piece of plastic, but don't tell me I have to okay? Elsewise, you're just another liberal fascist....
|
|
|
|
|
raindog
Jun 13, 2003, 7:38 PM
Post #15 of 160
(14376 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 22, 2003
Posts: 200
|
In reply to: In reply to: Making the right decisions has no effect on rock fall or any other head whacking event in climbing that can't be anticipated. That should be obvious. Understand this: don't climb near loose rock. That's called making a decision. If you are not smart enough to figure it out, then wear a piece of plastic, but don't tell me I have to okay? Elsewise, you're just another liberal fascist....
I don't think dirtineye is trying to force you to wear a helmet against your own free will, drkodos. He obviously feels strongly that wearing a helmet will make him safer. He wants to convince as many other people as possible to wear helmets to make them safer. That doesn't seem very facist to me.
|
|
|
|
|
drkodos
Jun 13, 2003, 7:44 PM
Post #16 of 160
(14376 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 21, 2002
Posts: 2935
|
In reply to: all I have to report is a skint knee, elbow and hand. I wish there were more accident reports like that and fewer serious head injuries and deaths.
skint?
what the f is that?
not intelligent enough to use a dictionary or even spell check....
Personally, i wish there were more injuries and deaths in climbing.
Thin out the gene pool a little.
Too many people doing it, not taking it seriously enough.
If more people get hurt and/or die, then less sh&theads that don't know what they're doing will be out at the cliffs.
Listen MFer: I've worked SAR and pulled more dead bodies from debris than any one person should. I've seen first-hand what a mangled climber looks like after plunging headfirst 1000 feet into a boulder pile. I've dealt with it.
Now take your helmet, and your dogma, and go play somewhere safe.
If you want perceived risk, ride a roller coaster.
Climbing is REAL risk.
Stay on the fvcking porch if you're scared of the big dogs, okay? and let those of us with the balls/ovaries and the brains to survive through climbing do our thing....
try a little KY and I bet that helmet can protect your colon....
|
|
|
|
|
hooker
Jun 13, 2003, 7:51 PM
Post #17 of 160
(14376 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 22, 2003
Posts: 173
|
he posted here and said he wished everyone else would were one. That sounds like promoting their use to me.
Helmets are marketed.
They are aimed at that segment of the demographic that goes climbing that wants perceived safety. They are marketed to gumbies and noobs that can't think for themselves.
They do not make things safer.
Top climbers that wear helmets do so for one reason, they get endorsement money. Talk to Stefan Glowacz (sp?) Does he wear a helmet since his sponsoship expired?
99 percent of fatal head injuries would not have been prevented by helmets.
Rare to do so, but agreement with Kodos on this one....
|
|
|
|
|
czarcastic
Jun 13, 2003, 7:54 PM
Post #18 of 160
(14376 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 16, 2003
Posts: 64
|
Drkodos: How does making the right decisions have to do with falling rock or dropped gear? And yes your right, Petzl makes crappy helmets that don't work at all, you might as well make them out of paper mache (read sarcasm here)
But hey, this is just my opinion, and really its your own noggin, you do what you like with it of course.
|
|
|
|
|
holmeslovesguinness
Jun 13, 2003, 7:55 PM
Post #19 of 160
(14376 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 10, 2002
Posts: 548
|
Wearing a helmt CAN save your life. I don't wear one while I'm cragging, but If you climb in an alpine environment or anywhere loose rock is present, not wearing a helmet is kind of stupid. Sure, if a big ass block hits you, you're screwed, helmet or not. But that's like saying wearing a seatbelt is stupid because you could get hit head on by and 18 wheeler and still die.
Also, I think Curt mentioned that climbing helmets are not useful in the event that you fall and hit the ground. The old school hard shell helmets are designed to deflect falling objects away from your head and aren't much good in a ground fall situation. But some of the newer designs are like bicycle helmets (with foam designed to crumble and absorb impact) and probably would help in those cases.
|
|
|
|
|
neadamthal
Jun 13, 2003, 8:05 PM
Post #20 of 160
(14376 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 2, 2002
Posts: 245
|
In reply to: what the f is that? not intelligent enough to use a dictionary or even spell check.... Personally, i wish there were more injuries and deaths in climbing.
what got up his ass?!
whatever your own opinion is drkodos, you're a fool to try to dissuade others from watching out for their own safety - however they chose to do it.
whatever you hard asses say, i'm going to wear my helmet when i'm leading and be proud at how much of a sissy i look. i personally want use of my brain when i'm done climbing!
|
|
|
|
|
angelaa
Jun 13, 2003, 8:07 PM
Post #21 of 160
(14376 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 21, 2003
Posts: 598
|
In reply to: Helmets don't save sh*t. A microwave block is going to drive that plastic crap right into the cerebellum.....
ok . . . sure the large ones you have no choice they hit you. . . your dead!
but what about the smaller ones?
I have personally been hit on the head with a fist size rock (with a helmet on) and I saw some serious stars! It came from the very top of Prodigal Son in Zion (& anyone who has been there knows the rock fall potential there is very hazardous.)
I could NOT have done anymore to avoid this rock than I did! I was at a hanging belay and under cover when it hit (my leader saw it wiz right past him and gave me fair warning! )
Had I NOT had that helmet on, I may or may not be here or I could be somewhere in a hospital still droolin'
Brain injury is NOT something to fool around with, & I honestly believe that without that helmet I would have at least been unable to finish the climb. :cry:
|
|
|
|
|
angelaa
Jun 13, 2003, 8:10 PM
Post #22 of 160
(14376 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 21, 2003
Posts: 598
|
In reply to: Understand this: don't climb near loose rock. That's called making a decision. If you are not smart enough to figure it out, then wear a piece of plastic, but don't tell me I have to okay? Elsewise, you're just another liberal fascist....
DID ANYONE TELL HIM HE HAD TO WEAR A HELMET?
I DIDN'T READ THAT ANYWHERE?
|
|
|
|
|
soma
Jun 13, 2003, 8:14 PM
Post #23 of 160
(14376 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 9, 2003
Posts: 155
|
A helmet has saved me from serious injury twice. Once climbing and once cycling. Neither time was it "my" fault. I wish I was wearing one about ten years ago when I fell of a skateboard and had to get 15 stiches in the back of my head. I was lucky that time that it was not more serious.
It is a personal decision and I don't care if someone does or not unless they are belaying me and then I will insist.
David
|
|
|
|
|
curt
Jun 13, 2003, 8:16 PM
Post #24 of 160
(14376 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 18275
|
angelaa,
In reply to: I have personally been hit on the head with a fist size rock (with a helmet on) and I saw some serious stars! It came from the very top of Prodigal Son in Zion (& anyone who has been there knows the rock fall potential there is very hazardous.) I could NOT have done anymore to avoid this rock than I did!
IF you are going to climb where you know there is a lot of falling rock, go ahead and wear a helmet--it MAY help. I never said that there was absolutely no benefit to helmets at all. However, it is even safer to use good judgement and climb where frequent rockfall is not a problem.
Curt
|
|
|
|
|
cricket
Jun 13, 2003, 8:17 PM
Post #25 of 160
(14376 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 10, 2003
Posts: 59
|
Went out last week and finally bought a bucket. Not pretty, but like each said, it will save your life. I will use it if the rock is real loose, or if I am to lead.
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
