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jcs
Jan 16, 2002, 6:02 AM
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Hey Everyone!
A few posts in the last little while have mentioned gear (biners) breaking! Has anyone had this happen to them or someone they know? Climbing gear, when used correctly, should be able to take AT LEAST 22kN of force- on a dynamic line in a forseeable climbing situation, that much force will basically never be placed on any single piece of gear! So whats up with this breaking gear stuff?
JCS
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wigglestick
Jan 16, 2002, 3:06 PM
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You are correct that gear, a carabiner for example, is unlikely to break when used properly. However when improper techniques are used it becomes easier. For example, a biner with a breaking strength of 22kn might have an open gate strength of 7kn. The biner could very easily break under normal conditions of the gate were to open, either due to "gate flutter" or improper positioning which causes the gate to be opened by the rock or other feature.
Also, I believe if you search the threads a little and read about some issues such as the American Triangle or fall factors approaching and greater than 2 you will learn about many situations where the strength of gear can be exceeded under normal loads. Hope that helps.
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jt512
Jan 17, 2002, 2:39 AM
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Wigglestick wrote:
Quote:...a biner with a breaking strength of 22kn might have an open gate strength of 7kn. The biner could very easily break under normal conditions of the gate were to open, either due to "gate flutter" or improper positioning which causes the gate to be opened by the rock or other feature.
You are right. Any carabiner that gets loaded in normal use is virtually assured of not breaking provided it gets loaded along its long axis with its gate closed. Unfortunately, loading with the gate open is common due to the factors you mention: gate flutter and interference from the rock. For this reason, open gate strength should be one of your main criteria when buying carabiners for your quickdraws.
A hard lead fall can generate more than 2000 lbs. of force. Cheap biners have open gate strengths as low as 7 kN (1575 lb) and could thus easily break should their gate pop open in a hard fall. In contrast, better (and more expensive) biners have open gate strengths as high as 10.5 kN (2363 lb), and are, thus, much safer.
-Jay
[ This Message was edited by: jt512 on 2002-01-16 18:42 ]
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dustinap
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Jan 17, 2002, 6:28 AM
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My friend has broken 5 10Kn Nuts. I saw a petzl Key Lock carabiner that did NOT shut all the way, I am sure it was from the gate fluttering open under a large fall.
I bootied a .5 DMM walnut that had a piece of the metal chipped off it, a large piece, in the center of the nut.
That is the year of 2001 alone.
[ This Message was edited by: dustinap on 2002-01-16 22:29 ]
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beyond_gravity
Jan 27, 2002, 6:42 PM
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has anyone heard of ropes braking?
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pianomahnn
Jan 27, 2002, 6:49 PM
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Only due to stupid human error, not checking it. But I've never heard of someone who made sure the rope was allright (visual inspection) only to have it snap. Seems unlikely, and the fall would have to be MASSIVE!!
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jds100
Jan 27, 2002, 8:08 PM
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Yeah, I think a fall that could break a good rope would be more likely to break the climber or the harness first. Again, this assumes that the rope is used and cared for correctly.
Wired nuts need to be inspected, too, of course; they can get suspect if they've been "wiggled" excessively to get 'em out of a placement (wire strands begin to break). Same for SLCDs.
The only stuff I've actually seen that is broken, is from testing scenarios and from deliberate misuse scenarios, as demonstrations. And, that was the point.
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pianomahnn
Jan 27, 2002, 8:15 PM
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Yeah, gear is pretty damn sturdy.
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beyond_gravity
Jan 27, 2002, 10:09 PM
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Dude, i mean if i never retire my rope, will it break, or will i just get an X-treme wedgie every fall?
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pianomahnn
Jan 27, 2002, 10:15 PM
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If you never, ever, retire your rope, I would assume someday it would fail. When? I wouldn't be able to tell you, and neither would anyone else. WAAAAAAAAAAAAY too many factors involved.
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