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b_fost
Jul 28, 2003, 8:54 PM
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Try to keep it constructive? Thanks.
some information about this shot, just to give you an idea about the situation:
location- Roadside Crag, RRG, KY
lighting- bright afternoon, mildly cloudy, some light blocked by trees behind the climb.
climber was about 30 vertical feet away from me.
shot was digital so i didn't use scanner- but the RC.com photo submission did make it a little 'pixelated'.
Thanks a lot. I am trying to get better at photography, and would appreciate it if you guys would point out things i could do better.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=16136
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dsafanda
Jul 28, 2003, 9:04 PM
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I'm no expert by any means but I think climbing photography is more about where you, the photographer position yourself than it is about the position of the climber(there's nothing you can do about that). I would have wanted to shoot this from above and to the side of the climber. Did you think about climbing the route first, anchoring yourself in and shooting from the top of the route rather than the bottom? It's clear that you tried to gain some distance from the wall so as to avoid a severely foreshortened figure but a butt shot is after all still a butt shot. I know because I've taken plenty of them myself. ;)
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hellclimber
Jul 28, 2003, 9:05 PM
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Well my input is of limited use since I'm kind of a beginner as a photographer myself but I can give it a shot.
Great scenery. Seems like you have tried to catch both the climber, nice wall and roof in one shot. Personally I might have wanted two shots here. One of the climber on the wall with the climber centered. One later on as he is on or at least closer to the roof. Difficult getting everything in one shot.
Also the angle. Would it be possible to take the shot from farther away using zoom to get the climber seem more level with the point of view of the photographer?
Don't know if that helped at all but thats my first thoughts looking at it. That and "I want to climb there".
hellclimber
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petsfed
Jul 28, 2003, 9:13 PM
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It gets more overexposed the closer you are to the upper right corner. Try next time metering for the area lit by the sun, then using a fill flash to illuminate the climber. Also there is a good feeling with the rope intersecting with the strata of the rock, but unfortunately most of the interesting stuff is to the right of the climber. Put him on the left of the frame next time you shoot this route (this might solve your over exposure woes as well). Lastly, try putting brighter clothes on the climber if you want him to be the focus of the shot. As it stands, the entire shot is kind of drab and screams for more contrast.
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tenn_dawg
Jul 28, 2003, 9:14 PM
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I think that part of what makes an interesting climbing shot is getting a new perspective on the climber.
We have all spent countless hours staring at the rear's of our patners (hopefully said partner is attractive and of the opposite sex). Because of this, pictures taken from ground level looking up at a climber lack originality to a climbing audience.
It's alot of work to take a decent climbing picture. When I'm going to shoot climbing pics, I don't even take my shoes or chalkbag to the crag. I load up a pack with a static rope, a grigri and an ascender, on top of all the camera gear. Experiment and try to get different angles. Take wide angle shots that include the beautiful Kentucky background, and also pull in close to capture expression and detail.
And keep on clicking the shutter. Unless you are burning some film, you're not experimenting. Some of my best shots have been the ones I didin't think would really work when looking through the viewfinder. With a digital camera, you have even more freedom to click away. Take advantage.
Travis
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dirtineye
Jul 28, 2003, 10:10 PM
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Try for Late afternoon light, no butt shots.
You get the right lighting and a side/overhead view of the same spot, the pic will be a lot better.
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dead_milkman
Jul 28, 2003, 10:51 PM
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The edges are vignetting and the shot is overexposed (if neg film). Try either stopping down 1/2 stop or crop out the sky (either in the viewfinder or digitally - the latter will rid the photo of the distracting vignette effect). Perspective is key - looking at yet another butt shot is not the way to set yourself apart... think of what it might take to get facial expressions (shoot from above or the side). Also, if the climb is featuring large in the composition, rather than the climber, you should try and capture some of the 'feeling' of the climb... perhaps by shooting it from about the height of the climber? I don't know... hard to say without being there. Try different things: perspectives, bracket, zoom in/out... and see what looks best.
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b_fost
Jul 29, 2003, 12:48 PM
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Thank you all SO-O-O-O much. That was huge help.
To all the people who said climb the route first, then take a shot from the side, top, etc. - sadly, I didn't have any other gear with me other than my shoes, so I couldn't have done that. I WILL keep that in mind next time, if I have my gear.
To people who said back up more, sadly I couldn't because there is kind of a ledge and I was toward the back of it.
I'll keep the over exposure in mind, and not shoot the sky.
Thanks again,
B Fost 8)
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krillen
Jul 29, 2003, 1:38 PM
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Try checking out/reading up on www.photo.net. they have a great learning/tutorials section which will help you with your compositional elements. As for critique:
1.) It's a butt shot. Plain and simple. use your creative energies to think of ways to combat this. (As was stated above, climbing over or near the climber is a good way to start.) I've climbed at Roadside a bunch of times and you are correct you can't get back, but have you tried going WAY off to the side? By moving back you are still making a butt shot, by moving to the side you can show the climbers movements, facial expression, emotion, and most importantly his EYES. If you can get the eyes you enable you viewers to connect with your subject easily. If it's the climb I'm thinking it is, get on top of that large rock to the left, stand up of the route and click away.
2.) Get rid of the sky. The sky is MANY stops brighter than any other spot in your pic. It's distracting, and it throws your light levels out the window. Your camera is trying to even out the whole range of light in one shot, by removing it, you allow your camera to work in a much easier range of light. Basically try and even out the exposure range/range of light.
This is hard with climbing, and especially with RRG climbin,g because anytime sky pokes into your shot, it back-lights EVERYTHING. I don't know HOW many rolls of backlit Kentucky pics I've shot. Crags tend to be dark and the skies tend to be bright.
3.) Try and use features as leading lines (leading the eye into and out of the picture). Your rope is doing a nice job of leading the eye to the climber right now. Try and use the bolt line, or hanging quickdraws for this as well.
4.) If it's RoShampo like I think it is, use the dynamic moves (the "cut your feet loose to heel hook"). This makes your shots exciting and dynamic. Make your viewer ask "Is he going to make it?!?!"
Now you don't always have to do this, but think about what your shot is trying to say. If you are doing landscape shooting, you are going for a different feel. Find out what you goal is.
5.) Look up the "rule of thirds" on google or on www.photo.net. Your subject "should" (doesn't have to be, but highly suggested) be on one of those intersection points. Right now your climber is pretty much dead-center. Try moving him around.
6.) Look at the best & worst photos here. Study them. What works, what doesn't, what do you like from them, how do you get that?
7.) Experiment. We can tell you all of our methods, but it's what works for you. You have to see this stuff in action for yourself.
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In conclusion (man that was a long post), a good photo is one that works for you. Eeverything else is just personal opionion on our part. If you like taking them and you like the results then don't let anyone tell you how to "make them better". On the flipside to that is "don't be afraid to ask quesitons". It's a great way to improve and learn. With this post you are well on your way.
Cheers
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b_fost
Jul 29, 2003, 1:47 PM
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In reply to: If it's the climb I'm thinking it is, get on top of that large rock to the left, stand up of the route and click away.
right on, I tried that, but I didn't use the flash, and the sun was blocked by the roof, so it was dark :(
In reply to: If it's RoShampo like I think it is
In reply to: make the shots exciting and dynamic...
thanks a lot for your post.
lot of help. i checked out photo.net, and that helps a lot too.
8)
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rrrADAM
Jul 29, 2003, 1:56 PM
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I've found that "angle to the climber" is most important... This would have been better if from the side at same or even higher level than the climber.
If the belayer is taking the pics, then some creative belay locations are needed.
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cthcrockclimber
Jul 29, 2003, 1:59 PM
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The only thing that I would change is the light, but there is very little that you can do about that. :idea:
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overlord
Jul 29, 2003, 2:27 PM
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IMHO, a little more zoom. just a tad too much rock. but otherwise, for a grou-up shot, its OK.
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rockfax
Jul 29, 2003, 2:35 PM
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For a butt shot that is a great photograph.
It tells me a lot about the cliff and the climb.
I find it very aesthetic.
Yes early or late light would have improved it.
I'd use it in one of my guidebooks.
Mick
www.rockfax.com
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krillen
Jul 29, 2003, 3:54 PM
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In reply to: For a butt shot that is a great photograph. It tells me a lot about the cliff and the climb.
Actually, knowing the climb it doesn't show alot about the cliff. If the shot had been from the side, you would relize that the route has quite a significant overhang (maybe 20 degrees). In the pic it looks only slightly overhanging.
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dsafanda
Jul 29, 2003, 3:56 PM
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Good point. I actually had assumed it was less than vertical.
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b_fost
Jul 29, 2003, 4:00 PM
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as someone just said, it is actually about 20 degrees overhanging. The anchors are before the roof.
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dsafanda
Jul 29, 2003, 4:02 PM
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Gee thanks...I understand that. I was agreeing with that person in that the photo does a poor job of conveying the steepness of the climb.
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b_fost
Jul 29, 2003, 4:04 PM
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no need to get angry.... I was just clarifying :wink:
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ronnin
Jul 29, 2003, 5:01 PM
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hey dude anyway this shot is awesome !!!!
I wanna have the same shot......but with me on it for sure :roll: !!!
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b_fost
Jul 29, 2003, 5:03 PM
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ronnin- thanks a lot!
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hatice
Jul 31, 2003, 9:42 PM
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How do you rate pics?!? Ive been racking my brain tryin to figure it out!! it may be the simplest thing but any help here would be much appreciated.
thanks
-Cheers, Graham
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markanite
Jul 31, 2003, 9:52 PM
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I would give it a 7.5.
Good idea ... but lacking a few things. First of all the composition is set up so that a viewers eye naturally falls off the top left corner of the screen. This is difficult to control in a climbing environment of course (u cant just move the rock :) ).
A great climbing picture is taken at a critical (difficult) part of the climb. The climber seems to be climbing this very easily. Lets see some barely holding on, about to fall but might just pull it off climbers!
Keep up the good work!
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krillen
Aug 1, 2003, 12:40 PM
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click on b_frost's name on the left, then click "view photos psoted by b_frost", click on the photo, then select a grade from the "rate this photo!" dropdown box.
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